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TOPIC: 2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two

2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two 1 year 10 months ago #145

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Jeff Martin wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Nightshade's needs some text about the dagger damage icon. Or a link to TokenDB.


Crud. Sorry!

It is just like the +2 Nightshade's Short Sword -- only it can be thrown (using DEX to hit and STR for damage) or used in melee fashion (STR for both). The thrown mode eliminates the need to spend one round maneuver to Sneak Attack, but then you will lose the use of the Dagger for the rest of the combat.


WOW. That is.... Quite the dagger!

(Upfront: I am biased, and I want to see this Dagger become a reality. So please know I’m not arguing against it, or to have it nerfed, just wanting to point out some design elements)

1) This dagger is almost the equivalent of the Shortsword. It’s damage wheel appears to be just *1* point less, with a range which seems to go from 3-8, compared to the Shortsword which goes from 4-8. I’m guessing Nightshade bribed/blackmailed some metallurgists to make this very effective dagger.

(Except for the Obsidian Dagger, I think all daggers have been d4 weapons, haven’t they?)

2) This allows Rogues to make a Sneak Attack without 1 Rd delay! Awesome. Again, an upgrade from the original. Frees up a slot for anyone using a rare Elvenkind token to get that effect.

3) This gives the Ability to Double Sneak Attack damage on a crit? Awesome - that’s expected with the Nightshade name.

4) Allows a Sneak Attack at ranged? Fantastic!! That power is only available on a couple other high end tokens (lenses of agility / Lenses of Vital insight) ... and although those allow a wider range of weapons, who cares? if you’re specifically looking for the chance to double your Sneak Attack damage, you’ll still want to use Nightshade’s! Basically frees up your eye slot, so you can focus (hah!) on other enchancements.

All said, these are a stunningly awesome upgrade. I approve.

I’d still approve, even if they dropped first round Sneak Attack, and/or went to a d4 damage wheel. That’d still give Rogues the design element they wanted (double-able Sneak Damage) and the bonus of a *Ranged Sneak Attack* weapon.

Matthew Hayward wrote: [
Although, actually BEHOLD:

tokendb.com/token/obsidian-dagger/

A d6 dagger usable by all (including Druid and Wizard).

So I guess it's fine to be a d6 dagger.


Nightshade’s +2 Obsidian Throwing Dagger?!?

This absolutely has the ThievesGuild stamp of approval!!!
I may have to go bribe/blackmail some stonemasons instead of the metallurgists!
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2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two 1 year 10 months ago #146

Raven wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Nightshade's needs some text about the dagger damage icon. Or a link to TokenDB.


Crud. Sorry!

It is just like the +2 Nightshade's Short Sword -- only it can be thrown (using DEX to hit and STR for damage) or used in melee fashion (STR for both). The thrown mode eliminates the need to spend one round maneuver to Sneak Attack, but then you will lose the use of the Dagger for the rest of the combat.


WOW. That is.... Quite the dagger!

(Upfront: I am biased, and I want to see this Dagger become a reality. So please know I’m not arguing against it, or to have it nerfed, just wanting to point out some design elements)

1) This dagger is almost the equivalent of the Shortsword. It’s damage wheel appears to be just *1* point less, with a range which seems to go from 3-8, compared to the Shortsword which goes from 4-8. I’m guessing Nightshade bribed/blackmailed some metallurgists to make this very effective dagger.

(Except for the Obsidian Dagger, I think all daggers have been d4 weapons, haven’t they?)

2) This allows Rogues to make a Sneak Attack without 1 Rd delay! Awesome. Again, an upgrade from the original. Frees up a slot for anyone using a rare Elvenkind token to get that effect.

3) This gives the Ability to Double Sneak Attack damage on a crit? Awesome - that’s expected with the Nightshade name.

4) Allows a Sneak Attack at ranged? Fantastic!! That power is only available on a couple other high end tokens (lenses of agility / Lenses of Vital insight) ... and although those allow a wider range of weapons, who cares? if you’re specifically looking for the chance to double your Sneak Attack damage, you’ll still want to use Nightshade’s! Basically frees up your eye slot, so you can focus (hah!) on other enchancements.

All said, these are a stunningly awesome upgrade. I approve.

I’d still approve, even if they dropped first round Sneak Attack, and/or went to a d4 damage wheel. That’d still give Rogues the design element they wanted (double-able Sneak Damage) and the bonus of a *Ranged Sneak Attack* weapon.

Matthew Hayward wrote: [
Although, actually BEHOLD:

tokendb.com/token/obsidian-dagger/

A d6 dagger usable by all (including Druid and Wizard).

So I guess it's fine to be a d6 dagger.


Nightshade’s +2 Obsidian Throwing Dagger?!?

This absolutely has the ThievesGuild stamp of approval!!!
I may have to go bribe/blackmail some stonemasons instead of the metallurgists!


Obsidian? Not Saphire? :P
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2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two 1 year 10 months ago #147

Any way we can let Rogues hold the Dagger in their offhand? It would give the same +2 as the brawlers horn and let us throw it while using the other Nightshades. True Rogue style!
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Last edit: by Guedoji.
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2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two 1 year 10 months ago #148

Charm of Power: The Staff of Power lets you cast a spell as scroll, the Crown of Expertise lets you cast a spell without marking it off. This effect is more similar to Crown of Expertise. Tittle is “Charm of Expertise”.

Cranston’s Helpful Hat: Ranges damage is unclear, does this boost damage on slid spell? If so, can we say “ranged and slid spells”? Does this boost damage on all damaging spells, because they are ranged in nature? If so, can we say “ranged attacks including all spells”?

Jinn’s: Charm is a hotly contested slot for Wizards, between MEC, Charm of Spell Swapping, Charm of Avarice, Draco-Lich Claw Charm, Charm of Power, Charm of Glory, and Charm of Brooching. Neck is contested at UR level with MoMM for those who use it. Ring is more contested with Rhelsa’s, Elemental Command, +3 Focus, Focus, Drake, and now Siren. Could it maybe be an Ioun Stone, Cloak, Crown, Weapon, Eyes, Shins, Bead, Tome, Ears, Belt, or Slotless please?
Also, wait, this no longer adds new spell boxes and just uses existing spell boxes while creating more options to choose from for spells? Can we add those bonus spell boxes back in? Please?

Psyferre’s: Love this token!

Ring of Sacrifice: Maybe make it set “If 30+ HP, take 20 damage to self. If 11-29 HP, set to 10. If <10 HP, no damage to self”? And maybe make it a free action? On the bright side, I love everyone seeing this and realizing “wow, 40 damage to myself in one combat? That is huge!” Yeah, Wizards with MEC do that every dungeon, and they have less Max HP than you do. Maybe now you can sympathize with them more?

Ring of the Siren: Can we just say +10 Polymorph damage so it also benefits the Crown, Belt, and Necklace that polymorph?
I play Wizard.
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2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two 1 year 10 months ago #149

Another option for the Nighshade's. Copy the damage wheel of last years Assassin's Blade (3,3,6,6,7,dagger). Call it Nighshade's +2 Throwing Blade. Usable by All except Cleric & Wizards. FoB compatible.

It gets a nice 6 range for assassinate, while keeping the current average damage. And all based on a precedent.
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2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two 1 year 10 months ago #150

I know we all like Nightshade's Dagger, and at the risk of meeting a grisly end in an alleyway...

I feel there is too much going on with Nightshade's Dagger.

1. Compound mode melee/ranged thrown weapon.
2. Special damage dot that does different things based on sneak attack or not - DM needs to know what it does.
3. Doubles sneak attack bonus on a sneak attack critical.
4. Bypasses 1 round sneak attack delay in ranged mode only.
5. Allows critting at range.

Each of effects 2-5 seem like things that if tacked onto any old +2 weapon would make a decent UR.

This token has more complicated stuff going on than Ava's in my estimation.

And, a lot of it is subject to confusion:

The dagger on the damage wheel adds 10 all the time! No - only while sneaking!

The dagger on the damage wheel gives me 8+an additional 10 when sneaking! No - it's only 10!

This token allows me to melee SA with no 1 round delay! No - only when thrown!

This token makes my ranged attacks with Assassin's Crossbow crit! No - only if equipped in the ranged mainhand.
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two 1 year 10 months ago #151

I may be wrong, as I am fairly new but this group of UR and the UR from 2020 seem like power creep compared to older years offerings.

If we are not careful, nightmare will be too easy and a sixth level of difficulty will be called for...
Last edit: by dave romanin.
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2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two 1 year 10 months ago #152

Matthew Hayward wrote: I know we all like Nightshade's Dagger, and at the risk of meeting a grisly end in an alleyway...

I feel there is too much going on with Nightshade's Dagger.

1. Compound mode melee/ranged thrown weapon.
2. Special damage dot that does different things based on sneak attack or not - DM needs to know what it does.
3. Doubles sneak attack bonus on a sneak attack critical.
4. Bypasses 1 round sneak attack delay in ranged mode only.
5. Allows critting at range.

Each of effects 2-5 seem like things that if tacked onto any old +2 weapon would make a decent UR.

This token has more complicated stuff going on than Ava's in my estimation.

And, a lot of it is subject to confusion:

The dagger on the damage wheel adds 10 all the time! No - only while sneaking!

The dagger on the damage wheel gives me 8+an additional 10 when sneaking! No - it's only 10!

This token allows me to melee SA with no 1 round delay! No - only when thrown!

This token makes my ranged attacks with Assassin's Crossbow crit! No - only if equipped in the ranged mainhand.


Can we drop #4 and let the existing tokens that do that handle the removal of the delay?
Last edit: by Lequinian.
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2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two 1 year 10 months ago #153

Thank you for changing the art on Gloves of the Dire Bear! Happy as is.

....but...if it's not too much trouble, I should have mentioned before that the token would look really bad ass if the gloves looked like bear paws.

aaaaaaand I'll shut up now.
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2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two 1 year 10 months ago #154

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Flik wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Charm of Fasting - I am generally not fond of free actions, as that easily leads to power creep. Perhaps reduce to level 0 spells and open it up to Bard.


Seeing how this is the UR for the cleric transmute path I'd find it odd to add Bard on to that. Secondly it is pretty much in line with what the cleric needs (FA buffs) at the right level (save lvl 2 for prayer for the relic).

Honestly, moving it to lvl 0 spells might be a buff. Cure minor wounds gets way more use for me due to speed alone (no skill check, no reason to bug the DM other than the sharpie) and you'd get an extra spell cast at 0th level.

This is the first iteration of the cleric UR that seems to be popular. I'd be content to leave it as is.

+1.

I'm more concerned about how much it stretches wizard spells than I am in giving lots of castings of bless / cure light wounds, but maybe I'm crazy there.


Wizard's can't use Charm of Fasting.

Do you mean Charm of Power?

Yes, somehow got confused mid post.

I'm not overly concerned about FA bless / prayer.

I'm possibly concerned about 1/room modified free spell casts. The base cure light wounds requires bothering a DM for a minute, but that isn't the end of the world and is going to end up somewhere around 25(ish) HP per room for most clerics, but I believe it could be as high as 38 / room if you went nuts with healing and passed the skill checks.

I'm pretty sure Wizards will never run out of spells with a free modified cast every room on top of all the other ways to cast extra spells. I haven't even considered the ramifications of that.


In standard runs Wizards rarely ever run out of spells.

In Grind this token will not stop the Wizard from running out long before combat is over.
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2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two 1 year 10 months ago #155

Boots of the Sweetwoods are WAY too powerful in my opinion, like Relic-level power. Consider that they are equivalent to your typical UR in the neck slot, which is considered the strongest slot. Especially with the odd starting values for most stats, I would suggest making them +2 to CON and +2 to DEX and it would still make them desirable.

As further argument for my point here: Boots of Might have always been pretty popular and they are only +2 CON. Mithral boots are +3 to DEX. Yes I know they are both part of sets, but I don't think that makes up for +3 or +4 more stat changes.

Unless boots are going to be the new neck slot tone down this token.
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2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two 1 year 10 months ago #156

Harlax wrote:

Raven wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Nightshade's needs some text about the dagger damage icon. Or a link to TokenDB.


Crud. Sorry!

It is just like the +2 Nightshade's Short Sword -- only it can be thrown (using DEX to hit and STR for damage) or used in melee fashion (STR for both). The thrown mode eliminates the need to spend one round maneuver to Sneak Attack, but then you will lose the use of the Dagger for the rest of the combat.


WOW. That is.... Quite the dagger!

(Upfront: I am biased, and I want to see this Dagger become a reality. So please know I’m not arguing against it, or to have it nerfed, just wanting to point out some design elements)

1) This dagger is almost the equivalent of the Shortsword. It’s damage wheel appears to be just *1* point less, with a range which seems to go from 3-8, compared to the Shortsword which goes from 4-8. I’m guessing Nightshade bribed/blackmailed some metallurgists to make this very effective dagger.

(Except for the Obsidian Dagger, I think all daggers have been d4 weapons, haven’t they?)

2) This allows Rogues to make a Sneak Attack without 1 Rd delay! Awesome. Again, an upgrade from the original. Frees up a slot for anyone using a rare Elvenkind token to get that effect.

3) This gives the Ability to Double Sneak Attack damage on a crit? Awesome - that’s expected with the Nightshade name.

4) Allows a Sneak Attack at ranged? Fantastic!! That power is only available on a couple other high end tokens (lenses of agility / Lenses of Vital insight) ... and although those allow a wider range of weapons, who cares? if you’re specifically looking for the chance to double your Sneak Attack damage, you’ll still want to use Nightshade’s! Basically frees up your eye slot, so you can focus (hah!) on other enchancements.

All said, these are a stunningly awesome upgrade. I approve.

I’d still approve, even if they dropped first round Sneak Attack, and/or went to a d4 damage wheel. That’d still give Rogues the design element they wanted (double-able Sneak Damage) and the bonus of a *Ranged Sneak Attack* weapon.

Matthew Hayward wrote: [
Although, actually BEHOLD:

tokendb.com/token/obsidian-dagger/

A d6 dagger usable by all (including Druid and Wizard).

So I guess it's fine to be a d6 dagger.


Nightshade’s +2 Obsidian Throwing Dagger?!?

This absolutely has the ThievesGuild stamp of approval!!!
I may have to go bribe/blackmail some stonemasons instead of the metallurgists!


Obsidian? Not Saphire? :P


Nightshade's +2 sapphire inlaid assassination dagger!
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