TOPIC: 2021 Rare Feedback Part Two

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Common Dwarven Slingbow - Wizard Usable
Rare Dwarven Slingbow - NOT Wizard Usable?

Wizard has NO uncommon or Rare weapons. For a new Wizard who runs out of spells they have literally NO way to attack this year...

The'll have access to common:

Dwarven Dart (1/combat), Dwarven Side Sticker, Dwarven Slingbow, Gnomish Cannon (1/room), Goblin Kriss.

And: C, UC, and Rare wand, a C, UC, and Rare damage scroll, a UC Polymorph potion.

Common weapons true.

Wands and scrolls are consumables, they quickly run out.

the UC poly potion is true. Also consumable.

So the only thing they have that can be used and not lost in using it would be a common weapon.

Seems like giving them 1 uncommon at least might be good? Access to a Rare weapon for the newbie Wizard seems like a good idea.

Especially since there's a common they have access to that has a rare version

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Common Dwarven Slingbow - Wizard Usable
Rare Dwarven Slingbow - NOT Wizard Usable?

Wizard has NO uncommon or Rare weapons. For a new Wizard who runs out of spells they have literally NO way to attack this year...

The'll have access to common:

Dwarven Dart (1/combat), Dwarven Side Sticker, Dwarven Slingbow, Gnomish Cannon (1/room), Goblin Kriss.

And: C, UC, and Rare wand, a C, UC, and Rare damage scroll, a UC Polymorph potion.

Common weapons true.

Wands and scrolls are consumables, they quickly run out.

the UC poly potion is true. Also consumable.

So the only thing they have that can be used and not lost in using it would be a common weapon.

Seems like giving them 1 uncommon at least might be good? Access to a Rare weapon for the newbie Wizard seems like a good idea.

Especially since there's a common they have access to that has a rare version

worth mentioning is the polymorph potion would force them to spend a round of combat drinking it.

Necklace of the Sharpshooter - Burn it with fire. Yes, the last Ranger neck item was too powerful. However, Ranger relics and legendary are literal paperweights for anyone not playing ranged "for flavor." Let's not have another uniquely important class token that should only be used by a small subset of the class, please.

Daniel White wrote: Necklace of the Sharpshooter - Burn it with fire. Yes, the last Ranger neck item was too powerful. However, Ranger relics and legendary are literal paperweights for anyone not playing ranged "for flavor." Let's not have another uniquely important class token that should only be used by a small subset of the class, please.

I think this is TPTB telling you that if you're not playing a ranged ranger, you're playing off theme. I like this token - a rare melee ranger has plenty of power and slides 2 pucks, while a rare ranged ranger, prior to this token, does less than a single melee ranger puck.

Endgame wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Necklace of the Sharpshooter - Burn it with fire. Yes, the last Ranger neck item was too powerful. However, Ranger relics and legendary are literal paperweights for anyone not playing ranged "for flavor." Let's not have another uniquely important class token that should only be used by a small subset of the class, please.

I think this is TPTB telling you that if you're not playing a ranged ranger, you're playing off theme. I like this token - a rare melee ranger has plenty of power and slides 2 pucks, while a rare ranged ranger, prior to this token, does less than a single melee ranger puck.

If it was "off theme" the prior iteration would not have been a melee-only bonus.

Daniel White wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Necklace of the Sharpshooter - Burn it with fire. Yes, the last Ranger neck item was too powerful. However, Ranger relics and legendary are literal paperweights for anyone not playing ranged "for flavor." Let's not have another uniquely important class token that should only be used by a small subset of the class, please.

I think this is TPTB telling you that if you're not playing a ranged ranger, you're playing off theme. I like this token - a rare melee ranger has plenty of power and slides 2 pucks, while a rare ranged ranger, prior to this token, does less than a single melee ranger puck.

If it was "off theme" the prior iteration would not have been a melee-only bonus.

I think the intent is instead to make Ranged version of the Ranger similarly useful at the rare level to the melee version. Less sliding skill ceiling with 1 puck, higher single puck damage bonus with class card and necklace, higher to hit with necklace. It makes both builds viable at rare.

It's going to do nothing for the UR+ Ranger but honestly that's NOT what these necklaces are designed for.

Brokkr wrote: Scroll Holy Fire feels kind of weak at rare level. Maybe 5 damage and 2 healing?

It's to all party members - so it's 10 points of healing plus some monster damage. Usually 10 points of healing is what you get in a rare healing scroll.

Daniel White wrote: Necklace of the Sharpshooter - Burn it with fire. Yes, the last Ranger neck item was too powerful. However, Ranger relics and legendary are literal paperweights for anyone not playing ranged "for flavor." Let's not have another uniquely important class token that should only be used by a small subset of the class, please.

There are BiS Legendary Ranged Rangers who aren't doing it "for flavor."

People who can hit the 18+ on Io's most of the time in combat, with one puck slides, and have stratospheric AC and Reflex saves.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Daniel White wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Necklace of the Sharpshooter - Burn it with fire. Yes, the last Ranger neck item was too powerful. However, Ranger relics and legendary are literal paperweights for anyone not playing ranged "for flavor." Let's not have another uniquely important class token that should only be used by a small subset of the class, please.

I think this is TPTB telling you that if you're not playing a ranged ranger, you're playing off theme. I like this token - a rare melee ranger has plenty of power and slides 2 pucks, while a rare ranged ranger, prior to this token, does less than a single melee ranger puck.

If it was "off theme" the prior iteration would not have been a melee-only bonus.

I think the intent is instead to make Ranged version of the Ranger similarly useful at the rare level to the melee version. Less sliding skill ceiling with 1 puck, higher single puck damage bonus with class card and necklace, higher to hit with necklace. It makes both builds viable at rare.

It's going to do nothing for the UR+ Ranger but honestly that's NOT what these necklaces are designed for.

I get the intent. I have two problems with doing that this way:

1. There's no comparable token for melee ranger, so it excludes half the class or more.
2. Because of the lack of a comparable melee token, it steers players to ranged. I don't like that because it steers new players to a sub-optimal playstyle.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Necklace of the Sharpshooter - Burn it with fire. Yes, the last Ranger neck item was too powerful. However, Ranger relics and legendary are literal paperweights for anyone not playing ranged "for flavor." Let's not have another uniquely important class token that should only be used by a small subset of the class, please.

There are BiS Legendary Ranged Rangers who aren't doing it "for flavor."

People who can hit the 18+ on Io's most of the time in combat, with one puck slides, and have stratospheric AC and Reflex saves.

My highly controversial opinion is that trade off is not worth it. AC is not very important. You can get plenty of hit with melee. Reflex saves are good, but I think you hit a point of diminishing returns on that in a way you don't with the added damage of melee.

Some things with comments

+1 Dwarven Sling of Smarts is back to feeling redundant with the +1 repeating slingbow.

There should be a 1H rare ranged weapon with wizards included - the +1 Dwarven Sling of Smarts should probably be a 1H rare usable by everyone.

Medallion of inner faith. It seems a bit awkward with the timing of casting a 1st level spell - perhaps it should just be its own spell, like this:
Cast as 1st level spell. Heal all characters 6 pts. (1/game)

Redstone name could maybe be a little better? Maybe Brimstone?


Some Things I love

Love that the Amulet of Smashing is back to +4 damage. This makes it slightly (+1 damage better) than Ring of Brilliance.

Love the art on the gauntlets of Ogre Power. So awesome.

Daniel White wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Daniel White wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Necklace of the Sharpshooter - Burn it with fire. Yes, the last Ranger neck item was too powerful. However, Ranger relics and legendary are literal paperweights for anyone not playing ranged "for flavor." Let's not have another uniquely important class token that should only be used by a small subset of the class, please.

I think this is TPTB telling you that if you're not playing a ranged ranger, you're playing off theme. I like this token - a rare melee ranger has plenty of power and slides 2 pucks, while a rare ranged ranger, prior to this token, does less than a single melee ranger puck.

If it was "off theme" the prior iteration would not have been a melee-only bonus.

I think the intent is instead to make Ranged version of the Ranger similarly useful at the rare level to the melee version. Less sliding skill ceiling with 1 puck, higher single puck damage bonus with class card and necklace, higher to hit with necklace. It makes both builds viable at rare.

It's going to do nothing for the UR+ Ranger but honestly that's NOT what these necklaces are designed for.

I get the intent. I have two problems with doing that this way:

1. There's no comparable token for melee ranger, so it excludes half the class or more.
2. Because of the lack of a comparable melee token, it steers players to ranged. I don't like that because it steers new players to a sub-optimal playstyle.

1. The comparable melee ranger rare tokens are Amulet of Vigor and Amulet of shock. It's a shame there aren't more awesome rare Neck items, but hopefully this improves over time.

2. If we don't print new ranged improving tokens, it will remain a sub optimal play style.