TOPIC: The Skull of Cavadar: Part Deux

Philip Goodman wrote: I think the current design is okay.

I'd also be a fan if the skull allow stacking with one psychic enabler to not invalidate all of them.

"Grants access to all pwr tiers & grants psychic ability or 1 addl pwr use"

This.

Brokkr wrote:

James Bennett wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

James Bennett wrote:

James wrote: I know the Skull is going to bother a few people, I kinda like where it is at, I don't need it to have more but I can see peoples frustration with it.

I also like where it is at. It is pretty much exactly what I expected it to be plus the addition of the sub-classes which is awesome!

I agree, it's wonderful that the sub-classes were added. I'd still like to see a permanent 8th level ability in addition to the event, but I'm OK if there isn't one. It just seems like if the token itself says it unlocks the 8th level ability, that there should always be some sort of 8th level ability.

I'm holding out hope that something awesome might happen during that run to unlock it or that there will be some special treasure to help with it. There's plenty of time until the run for creative ideas to come up.

I don't know which is most recent, but on the current Transmute page the Skull says "grants access to all power tiers," so it might just be the current 0-7 abilities.

Yep, I noticed that rewording also. I'm sure it still unlocks 0-8, with 8 being the event, but now that it doesn't specifically say it unlocks level 8 on the token, there isn't as much pressure to have some sort of ongoing level 8 ability. While it would be nice to have a more powerful Level 8 ongoing ability, I'm totally OK if it doesn't. Getting access to the sub-classes was a very welcome addition, I'm OK if nothing beyond that is added.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Dave wrote: ...for people who acquired the semi-lich skull and don't frequent the forums, were they informed that if they transmuted the teeth that the semi-lich becomes worthless (unless they want to acquire more teeth)? I could see that making some people unhappy, just not sure how many fall into that camp.

As Jedi alluded, the tokenDB entry is very clear about how the Semi-Lich Skull works:

jedibcg wrote: For those that are claiming they didn't know about the Lich Skull can I point you to the tokendb?

tokendb.com/token/semi-lich-skull/
The user gains +1 to max HP for every uniquely named (numbered) Tooth of Cavadar token they have equipped. This item also imbues the user with Psychic Power.

I don't think "named (numbered) Tooth of Cavadar token" is ambiguous.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:
Where exactly in the text of the token was I supposed to inherently know that it would not consider the transmuted token to be all 7 pieces of the transmute. Especially given that the full Rod gives the effects of all 7 segments at the same time.

To be sure- the Skull as-proposed does give the effects of all 7 teeth at the same time. It just doesn't give the effect of the Semi-Lich Skull.

A very important distinction that is not mentioned in any way or form on the token itself, it's tokendb page or the $250UR order page.

The simple fact is that it was NOT written anywhere that the semi lich skull would NOT be compatible with the teeth transmute and players who did not participate in token design last year had no good reason to assume such.

The whole issue could be resolved by doing something as simple as adding +5HP to the Skull transmute in a nod to the semi lich skull and those who spent money purchasing it not knowing that it was planned to be incompatible.

I'm not sure I agree, the text on the skull is "+1 HP / unique Tooth of Cavadar equipped". The Eldritch Skull is clearly not a single or collection of unique Tooth of Cavadar tokens. While it doesn't specifically say that it won't work with the transmuted skull, there's nothing on the token that would indicate that it would work with the transmuted skull.

Anthony Barnstable wrote: But I don’t have a Mind Flayer Skull token I am transmuting. This would be the first time ever an eldritch transmute doesn’t use the UR components in a justifiable, logical manner to turn into the “big thing”. It just creates a new physical object “out of thin air” without explanation.

When you put the seven teeth together, the skull magically appears. It was just waiting for the seven teeth to finally be in proximity to each other to be able to materialize from the Nether Void that it has been trapped in for all these long centuries. The seven teeth were scattered far and wide to prevent just this occurrence.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Recipe comments:

One of the good things about Eldrtich tokens is they hoover a lot of trade goods out of the market.

This in turn makes new token purchases and treasure pulls more desirable.

Having an alt recipe that takes a PyP and the teeth segments does not achieve this effect.

I think the recipe should stay focused on trade goods for this reason.

I also think there should be demand in current year recipes to hoover up excess monster bits and fleece that were left on the sidelines as 2019 became the extreme constraining factor in making Bead of the Lucky Traveler. I suspect a good place to locate some of that demand is in a Golden Fleece in the Cavadar transmute, as there was in the Kilt transmute. Another good place might be the Elfstone Shard.

I don't agree that there are a lot of monster tokens left on the sidelines that need to be hoovered up, because I was actively looking to buy those excess monster tokens and nobody seemed to have any. I hope that this recipe is exactly like the Rod of Seven Parts recipe, without a Golden Fleece. If there is a concern that there will be too many 2020 monster tokens, I'd rather they just be reduced in the treasure boxes than compensated for by adding a bunch of extra Golden Fleece to recipes. I think going to 6 monster tokens vs. 4 per year will help with excess also.

I like the idea of the special event be the crafting of the token.
Have it at set times during each con, maybe just after normal transmuting times. This gives a room to use and puts it at multiple conventions easily. For those that transmute by post get the voucher and that can be used at the con or sold on.
The special event does not have to be big, or even give X.P.
An NPC crafter with some dialog would be cool on their own.
Throw in some special effects like a forge that you drop the tokens in and have the new artifact slide out in a bellow of smoke.

Brad wrote: I like the idea of the special event be the crafting of the token.
Have it at set times during each con, maybe just after normal transmuting times. This gives a room to use and puts it at multiple conventions easily. For those that transmute by post get the voucher and that can be used at the con or sold on.
The special event does not have to be big, or even give X.P.
An NPC crafter with some dialog would be cool on their own.
Throw in some special effects like a forge that you drop the tokens in and have the new artifact slide out in a bellow of smoke.

I think I'd be disappointed if the Special Event were something like that. I'm hoping for something more interactive, like a mini-adventure. Although maybe it could be similar, in that the adventure could be us overcoming obstacles to turn these seven teeth into the Skull. Maybe one room we obtain the skull by defeating the monster guarding it, another we solve a tricky puzzle to attach the teeth to the skull, etc. Maybe what you describe could be the final room. Hopefully with some cool swag afterwards.

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad wrote: I like the idea of the special event be the crafting of the token.
Have it at set times during each con, maybe just after normal transmuting times. This gives a room to use and puts it at multiple conventions easily. For those that transmute by post get the voucher and that can be used at the con or sold on.
The special event does not have to be big, or even give X.P.
An NPC crafter with some dialog would be cool on their own.
Throw in some special effects like a forge that you drop the tokens in and have the new artifact slide out in a bellow of smoke.

I think I'd be disappointed if the Special Event were something like that. I'm hoping for something more interactive, like a mini-adventure. Hopefully with some cool swag.

If a mini adventure I'd love to see something Virtually myself as waiting on things to see if we can all get together for a event may be some time. Also it would allow more people to "attend" at the expense at being there in person...

FiannaTiger wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad wrote: I like the idea of the special event be the crafting of the token.
Have it at set times during each con, maybe just after normal transmuting times. This gives a room to use and puts it at multiple conventions easily. For those that transmute by post get the voucher and that can be used at the con or sold on.
The special event does not have to be big, or even give X.P.
An NPC crafter with some dialog would be cool on their own.
Throw in some special effects like a forge that you drop the tokens in and have the new artifact slide out in a bellow of smoke.

I think I'd be disappointed if the Special Event were something like that. I'm hoping for something more interactive, like a mini-adventure. Hopefully with some cool swag.

If a mini adventure I'd love to see something Virtually myself as waiting on things to see if we can all get together for a event may be some time. Also it would allow more people to "attend" at the expense at being there in person...

I'd rather wait as long as it takes to do it in person. Virtual is fun, but for me in person is so much better.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Recipe comments:

One of the good things about Eldrtich tokens is they hoover a lot of trade goods out of the market.

This in turn makes new token purchases and treasure pulls more desirable.

Having an alt recipe that takes a PyP and the teeth segments does not achieve this effect.

I think the recipe should stay focused on trade goods for this reason.

I also think there should be demand in current year recipes to hoover up excess monster bits and fleece that were left on the sidelines as 2019 became the extreme constraining factor in making Bead of the Lucky Traveler. I suspect a good place to locate some of that demand is in a Golden Fleece in the Cavadar transmute, as there was in the Kilt transmute. Another good place might be the Elfstone Shard.

Same argument could be made for ‘useless’ UR’s, they would be sucked out of the market same as 1 of each trade good.

I like the wording change on the current draft of the token. In addition to not promising a level 8 power that might not exist after the special event, “grants access to all power tiers” also gives some flexibility if TPTB want to add a 9th or 10th level psychic power in the future, or add a one-off special psychic power for a particular season.

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Recipe comments:

One of the good things about Eldrtich tokens is they hoover a lot of trade goods out of the market.

This in turn makes new token purchases and treasure pulls more desirable.

Having an alt recipe that takes a PyP and the teeth segments does not achieve this effect.

I think the recipe should stay focused on trade goods for this reason.

I also think there should be demand in current year recipes to hoover up excess monster bits and fleece that were left on the sidelines as 2019 became the extreme constraining factor in making Bead of the Lucky Traveler. I suspect a good place to locate some of that demand is in a Golden Fleece in the Cavadar transmute, as there was in the Kilt transmute. Another good place might be the Elfstone Shard.

I don't agree that there are a lot of monster tokens left on the sidelines that need to be hoovered up, because I was actively looking to buy those excess monster tokens and nobody seemed to have any. I hope that this recipe is exactly like the Rod of Seven Parts recipe, without a Golden Fleece. If there is a concern that there will be too many 2020 monster tokens, I'd rather they just be reduced in the treasure boxes than compensated for by adding a bunch of extra Golden Fleece to recipes. I think going to 6 monster tokens vs. 4 per year will help with excess also.

I'm not sure the lack of response to your offer to buy excess monster bits is a strong indicator. It may be that people simply looked at what you were offering and saw what the stores were selling those same tokens for and decided to just hold onto them and wait for a better offer. Or maybe there are more people like me than there used to be, who've decided that if people are going to keep pushing to include more GF in recipes, maybe I need to protect myself on future transmutes by not selling off what I have, even if I have no immediate plans to use them.

As far as reducing the amount of monster bits in the treasure box: the group of players that would probably hurt most are the players that are just starting to get into transmuting.