TOPIC: 2021 Wizard Relic & Legendary Feedback

Fiddy wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I know there was a previous statement that only the Bard and Paladin class Legendaroes would be non neck slot items, but I am curious if allowing the Legendary Wizard token to stay a Spellbook would be a better direction design wise considering the Spellbook is more about flexibility than power.

What would the wizard Concensus be on this?

Ultra Rare - Jinn's Spellbook
slot in 5 C/U scrolls, they can be swapped for any first level spell and in all ways count as a first level spell being cast. Mark off a 1st level spell of your choice on the wizard card when casting any of the Spellbook scrolls (this is the original design of the UR token)

Relic - Jinn's Greater Spellbook
As Jinn's Spellbook but allows the use of Rare scrolls. Adds 1 spellbox of your choice at all spell levels cast as a free action (current and previous designs)

Legendary - Jinn's Master Spellbook
As Jinn's Greater Spellbook but adds one spell box of your choice at all spell levels cast as a free action

And one of the following effects
- Wands used in combat are not consumed
- Slide Spells can crit on a 19-20
- 2/game double all spell damage for one round

(one of those 3 effects not all 3 of them)

I will start fighting you all to play Wizard all the time if that was made slotless.

Hahaha muscle wizard casts fist!

I think keeping as many of the legendary items in the neck slot as possible is important. It allows them to produce powerful caster neck-slot items in the future knowing that players will need to chose between them and a legendary item.

I'm up for a discussion on discord if we want to organize that. I'm happy to run numbers as we discuss pieces. Anyone up for that?

James Bennett wrote: I'm up for a discussion on discord if we want to organize that. I'm happy to run numbers as we discuss pieces. Anyone up for that?

asking a mod to build us a channel

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

James Bennett wrote: I'm up for a discussion on discord if we want to organize that. I'm happy to run numbers as we discuss pieces. Anyone up for that?

asking a mod to build us a channel

Text discussion on discord works for me. Audio breaks down for me after 4 people join

At this point, I don't see the Legendary as worth it.

With consumable wands, I'll never use the MMM effect and the expense and effort to bounce from Relic -> Leg isn't worth it just for the MEC effect.

Honestly, I'd much rather see Staff/Bracelets of Power effect and/or some solid +spell damage over MMM (or maybe remove the consume wands if you have the Relic).

Spells crit on slide holds zero interest for me, personally. I play a wizard to avoid sliding.

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I prefer the prior revision.

The delta to me between these two revisions is:

Lose: 1 extra spell box at each level (cast as a free action)
Lose: Slotless +3 AC and +1 to saves from Potion Polymorph Brownie
Lose: Tactical ability to slide a puck to bump around other tokens
Lose: Slotless ability to negate a melee hit for Rare polymorph potion 1/game
Gain: ~+10 damage per round excepting the 4 rounds where I'm casting spells from Mage Medallion and maybe one from Ring of Spell Storing, at the cost of 3-4 Rare wands per adventure
Gain: Charm slot

I'm happy to hear Familiars will return in a more comprehensive manner.

In the mean time, I'd be curious if there is any way to get back the additional spell slots as a free action. Or, if giving up more additional spells is too much, even just more FA spells, such as: "You may cast a spell from your card as a free action, 4/game."

Also, in case I'm driving designers insane by flipflopping in MMM (I'd previously said I really hoped MMM was included). I was just so blown away by the prior design of +8 spells as a FA, which I'd happily give up MMM for .

I think you missed:

Gain: 5 extra 1st level spells.

The new version of the UR doesn't say that you mark off existing spell boxes, it says they are added.

Jeff just clarified on the UR thread - you don't gain 5 extra 1st level spell slots on the UR.

You gain access to 5 additional scroll effects you can cast using your 1st level spell slots and they are treated as 1st level card spells for all purposes (e.g. spell bonus, interaction with RoSS, etc., etc.).

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=640&id=251622&start=96#376703

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I prefer the prior revision.

The delta to me between these two revisions is:

Lose: 1 extra spell box at each level (cast as a free action)
Lose: Slotless +3 AC and +1 to saves from Potion Polymorph Brownie
Lose: Tactical ability to slide a puck to bump around other tokens
Lose: Slotless ability to negate a melee hit for Rare polymorph potion 1/game
Gain: ~+10 damage per round excepting the 4 rounds where I'm casting spells from Mage Medallion and maybe one from Ring of Spell Storing, at the cost of 3-4 Rare wands per adventure
Gain: Charm slot

I'm happy to hear Familiars will return in a more comprehensive manner.

In the mean time, I'd be curious if there is any way to get back the additional spell slots as a free action. Or, if giving up more additional spells is too much, even just more FA spells, such as: "You may cast a spell from your card as a free action, 4/game."

Also, in case I'm driving designers insane by flipflopping in MMM (I'd previously said I really hoped MMM was included). I was just so blown away by the prior design of +8 spells as a FA, which I'd happily give up MMM for .

I think you missed:

Gain: 5 extra 1st level spells.

The new version of the UR doesn't say that you mark off existing spell boxes, it says they are added.

Jeff just clarified on the UR thread - you don't gain 5 extra 1st level spell slots on the UR.

You gain access to 5 additional scroll effects you can cast using your 1st level spell slots and they are treated as 1st level card spells for all purposes (e.g. spell bonus, interaction with RoSS, etc., etc.).

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=640&id=251622&start=96#376703

Yeah. Gotta say that is disappointing. Definitely leaves the UR feeling less worth a neck slot.

The UR definitely isn't worth the neck slot. As a cool option for flair and variation at slotless it would be OK

Bob Chasan wrote: The UR definitely isn't worth the neck slot. As a cool option for flair and variation at slotless it would be OK

At slotless, anything is ok.

Honestly, if slotless, is this that much better or worse than horn of the valkyrie or quiver of annointment?

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote: The UR definitely isn't worth the neck slot. As a cool option for flair and variation at slotless it would be OK

At slotless, anything is ok.

Honestly, if slotless, is this that much better or worse than horn of the valkyrie or quiver of annointment?

The scrolls will never be turned in, so it has to be better. There's a lot of upside as more scrolls get printed in the future.

It's versatile at slotless. Its cumbersome in the neck slot.

Still checking on these posts periodically. Once a group willing to discuss has some best options, I'm more than willing to help settle on a best choice for the group. Of course, you realize that Jeff may still want to go in another direction. After continued consideration.

The UR is only valuable so I can tranmute to the relic. Would never equip it.
The relic is worth the neck slot only because it gives me 4 FA spells. I do NOT think this overpowered and anything less makes the relic borderline in terms of use.
The legendary holds very little value at this point. I know there are those that think MEC is overpowered. We've been down that path and completely disagree, but I just don't think it's worth adding to the legendary. I'm more than happy to still find one charm slot for that ability. MMM is completely useless to me unless the wand become non-consumable. Even then I have little interest.

The last iteration of the legendary made me think twice about possibly giving up the cabal set. As things stand, the cabal set is almost equal to the relic and better than the legendary. Maybe add all max cabal effects as part of the legendary (1 FA spell per room, +3 spell damage, etc.) Then I also get those slots back to play with. Legendary needs to live up to its name. I would not transmute for it in its current version.