TOPIC: 2021 Wizard Relic & Legendary Feedback

Matthew Galambus wrote:

Chris Yurwitz wrote:

Chris Yurwitz wrote: In my world, the relic would have rares in the spellbook, 4 or 5 free action casts from the spell book per dungeon, and 1 extra charm slot. Free action spells would not get a chance at skill check bonus so as not to slow things down.

The Legendary would have the above, but with unlimited free action casts from the spellbook instead of limited, 2 charms instead of one, and bardic damage (earcuff of inspiration effect).

To expand on my thoughts for last night, I’m latching on to an idea that the spellbook should be a free action item only. At the UR level, you get 1 cast per room as a free action from the book (no skill check for +3). This could put it on par with a MMM, and scale as the wizard gets more powerful. At relic, you get rares in the book, 2 casts as free actions per room, and 1 charm slot. At legendary get unlimited casts as free actions from the book, 2 charms, and the bardic damage. You wouldn’t get a second fireball/lightning, but an unlimited free action spell helps for 3-round combats and grind. The extra charm slots and freeing up a powerful ear slot are pretty good in my opinion. You could replace the bardic damage with a fix spell damage instead, but I like the idea of bardic on here better.

To be forward, I loathe the idea of a class relic/legendary including slot expanders. Our token should not also be dependent on another class being in the party either. Unlimited anything should never come lightly as well.

Agree.

I like the current design of the UR if it's moved back to slotless.

I like the current design of the Relic as is as a relic necklace.

I liked the previous iteration of the Legendary with some other thing given in place of the removed familiar.

I would prefer not to have the class legendary:
dependent on other classes to get it's benefit.
dependent on consumable items to get it's benefit
expand slots on the character

I like the design giving Wizards more variety of options. I would love the number of scrolls to go up to 7 at Relic and 9 at Legendary specifically to give us the ability to slot in more situational or non combat related scrolls giving us more flexibility. The easiest way to get that tho would be to allow the UR slotless spellbook to be equipped with the Relic or Legendary giving us 5 C/U/R scrolls and 5 additional C/U scrolls. The UR doesn't provide any damage benefit and stacking the two doesn't give any power creep for the class, it only increases our flexibility. That doesn't seem like a bad thing to allow.

edwin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

edwin wrote: What I would actual prefer for the relic is
+4 Dexterity
+3 to physical range attack damage
A single spell box added to the card to allow one additional casting of a any spell as a free action in exchange for marking off an equivalent number of spell levels. You would have a choice on whether you would do zero or one additional casting of a spell as a free action.

What I would actual prefer for the legendary is
+8 Dexterity
+6 to physical range attack damage
Two spell boxes added to the card to allow two additional castings of a spell (two different or the same one twice) as a free action in exchange for marking off an equivalent number of spell levels. You would have a choice on whether you would do zero, one or two additional castings of a spell as a free action.

This would fit into a elven fighter/wizard concept where you do physical damage at range and supplement it with some tailorable spell casting/

0/10 interest in this design. It in no way supports the core design of a spellcasting Wizard in my opinion.

Matches my sentiments on the 10 options in the poll.

you are going to have a very hard sell to convince Wizards to build the class legendary around physical ranged attacks. That in no way feels Wizardly.

Mike Steele wrote:

Dave wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

NightGod wrote:

OrionW wrote: For better or worse, MEC is class defining for wizards. It makes sense to see it on the Legendary.

I agree that it makes sense to see it (or a similar effect) on the Legendary. I don't agree that it makes sense to see it as the only effect on the neck that most people will use regularly, because the other option uses consumable items that most wizards have given up on.

If we see a MEC like effect I would prefer it to be better than the MEC.

2x all damage for 1 round x/game so we actually get spell damage bonuses added in for once.

This is where my thoughts are at right now. If you're going to include MEC, then make it MEC+.
I also agree with the previous post that pointed out that every year, the impact of MEC becomes a little smaller.

I think the MEC is still hugely powerful, it cumulatively probably adds more additional damage than any other UR other than maybe Bard instruments. If the Wizards don't want it anymore, the Druids will take it off your hands.

Its strong, but it requires your build to be altered. Its not good as a stand alone token. I just think we can brainstorm and rally behind a better idea that encompasses all of Magekind.

(Also not sure if you are aware, your Druid relic/legendary is getting a "tweak" coming up... see the current rare thread post number 32 for the proclamation by Jeff)

edwin wrote: What I would actual prefer for the relic is
+4 Dexterity
+3 to physical range attack damage
A single spell box added to the card to allow one additional casting of a any spell as a free action in exchange for marking off an equivalent number of spell levels. You would have a choice on whether you would do zero or one additional casting of a spell as a free action.

What I would actual prefer for the legendary is
+8 Dexterity
+6 to physical range attack damage
Two spell boxes added to the card to allow two additional castings of a spell (two different or the same one twice) as a free action in exchange for marking off an equivalent number of spell levels. You would have a choice on whether you would do zero, one or two additional castings of a spell as a free action.

This would fit into a elven fighter/wizard concept where you do physical damage at range and supplement it with some tailorable spell casting/

Food for thought, what if you used the free actions from the Relic (and hopefully Legendary) to buff yourself in combat?

I'll help advocate for scolls giving a target +X to ranged damage/hit/etc if you would like for the following season.

There is just nothing magical about going physical ranged.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

edwin wrote: What I would actual prefer for the relic is
+4 Dexterity
+3 to physical range attack damage
A single spell box added to the card to allow one additional casting of a any spell as a free action in exchange for marking off an equivalent number of spell levels. You would have a choice on whether you would do zero or one additional casting of a spell as a free action.

What I would actual prefer for the legendary is
+8 Dexterity
+6 to physical range attack damage
Two spell boxes added to the card to allow two additional castings of a spell (two different or the same one twice) as a free action in exchange for marking off an equivalent number of spell levels. You would have a choice on whether you would do zero, one or two additional castings of a spell as a free action.

This would fit into a elven fighter/wizard concept where you do physical damage at range and supplement it with some tailorable spell casting/

0/10 interest in this design. It in no way supports the core design of a spellcasting Wizard in my opinion.

0/10 seems to high. Something like -5/10 for me.

NightGod wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

edwin wrote: What I would actual prefer for the relic is
+4 Dexterity
+3 to physical range attack damage
A single spell box added to the card to allow one additional casting of a any spell as a free action in exchange for marking off an equivalent number of spell levels. You would have a choice on whether you would do zero or one additional casting of a spell as a free action.

What I would actual prefer for the legendary is
+8 Dexterity
+6 to physical range attack damage
Two spell boxes added to the card to allow two additional castings of a spell (two different or the same one twice) as a free action in exchange for marking off an equivalent number of spell levels. You would have a choice on whether you would do zero, one or two additional castings of a spell as a free action.

This would fit into a elven fighter/wizard concept where you do physical damage at range and supplement it with some tailorable spell casting/

0/10 interest in this design. It in no way supports the core design of a spellcasting Wizard in my opinion.

0/10 seems to high. Something like -5/10 for me.

Agreed -5/10 is more accurate

Matthew Galambus wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Dave wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

NightGod wrote:

OrionW wrote: For better or worse, MEC is class defining for wizards. It makes sense to see it on the Legendary.

I agree that it makes sense to see it (or a similar effect) on the Legendary. I don't agree that it makes sense to see it as the only effect on the neck that most people will use regularly, because the other option uses consumable items that most wizards have given up on.

If we see a MEC like effect I would prefer it to be better than the MEC.

2x all damage for 1 round x/game so we actually get spell damage bonuses added in for once.

This is where my thoughts are at right now. If you're going to include MEC, then make it MEC+.
I also agree with the previous post that pointed out that every year, the impact of MEC becomes a little smaller.

I think the MEC is still hugely powerful, it cumulatively probably adds more additional damage than any other UR other than maybe Bard instruments. If the Wizards don't want it anymore, the Druids will take it off your hands.

Its strong, but it requires your build to be altered. Its not good as a stand alone token. I just think we can brainstorm and rally behind a better idea that encompasses all of Magekind.

(Also not sure if you are aware, your Druid relic/legendary is getting a "tweak" coming up... see the current rare thread post number 32 for the proclamation by Jeff)

I am, and I'm grateful Jeff is willing to do that. I'd welcome the MEC as part of the Druid revamp, but I'd put that possibility at zero and below.

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Galambus wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Dave wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

NightGod wrote:

OrionW wrote: For better or worse, MEC is class defining for wizards. It makes sense to see it on the Legendary.

I agree that it makes sense to see it (or a similar effect) on the Legendary. I don't agree that it makes sense to see it as the only effect on the neck that most people will use regularly, because the other option uses consumable items that most wizards have given up on.

If we see a MEC like effect I would prefer it to be better than the MEC.

2x all damage for 1 round x/game so we actually get spell damage bonuses added in for once.

This is where my thoughts are at right now. If you're going to include MEC, then make it MEC+.
I also agree with the previous post that pointed out that every year, the impact of MEC becomes a little smaller.

I think the MEC is still hugely powerful, it cumulatively probably adds more additional damage than any other UR other than maybe Bard instruments. If the Wizards don't want it anymore, the Druids will take it off your hands.

Its strong, but it requires your build to be altered. Its not good as a stand alone token. I just think we can brainstorm and rally behind a better idea that encompasses all of Magekind.

(Also not sure if you are aware, your Druid relic/legendary is getting a "tweak" coming up... see the current rare thread post number 32 for the proclamation by Jeff)

I am, and I'm grateful Jeff is willing to do that. I'd welcome the MEC as part of the Druid revamp, but I'd put that possibility at zero and below.

Sad truth is, as a self heal possible class it'd probably be considered too strong for the Druid.

The 10HP damage is it's "balancing factor"

It would also stack with spell surge allowing you to double dip in one round of combat. Something the Wizards have been repeatedly denied.

From jeff in the ultra rare thread....book is moving to charm slot.

Looks like TBTP are starting to lock this round of feedback threads.

If this one is locked before the Wizard survey closes at 9 PM Eastern tonight and I get a chance to post the results, I'll either start a new thread with the results, or post them on the replacement thread.

Adam Guay wrote: From jeff in the ultra rare thread....book is moving to charm slot.

Sneak preview:
Charm of Awesome Spellcasters

• Cast all Spells as FA
• Have as many Spell boxes as you want
• Cast all Scrolls as Spells
• Scrolls don't get turned in
• Wands don't get turned in
• Use all Scrolls
• Use all Wands
• +10 damage vs Druids
• Usable by: Bard, Cleric, Wizards

Staff of Power and Spellbook are both becoming charms. I am OK with that