TOPIC: 2021 Wizard Relic & Legendary Feedback

OrionW wrote: For better or worse, MEC is class defining for wizards. It makes sense to see it on the Legendary.

I agree that it makes sense to see it (or a similar effect) on the Legendary. I don't agree that it makes sense to see it as the only effect on the neck that most people will use regularly, because the other option uses consumable items that most wizards have given up on.

NightGod wrote:

OrionW wrote: For better or worse, MEC is class defining for wizards. It makes sense to see it on the Legendary.

I agree that it makes sense to see it (or a similar effect) on the Legendary. I don't agree that it makes sense to see it as the only effect on the neck that most people will use regularly, because the other option uses consumable items that most wizards have given up on.

If we see a MEC like effect I would prefer it to be better than the MEC.

2x all damage for 1 round x/game so we actually get spell damage bonuses added in for once.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Calling All Wizard - Helps us Get Aligned

The idea of the survey below is to find if we can all agree on some proposal or other as the best of the bunch.

I did my best to represent all the proposals here in this thread: there are 10 (including the current proposal from TPTB).

Please take this survey which force ranks all 10 options as your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, ... 10th favorite choice.

I hope that a miracle occurs and we can find 1-2 items that we all agree are the best of the bunch, or at least eliminate some options if we all agree that idea A is better than idea B.

Survey Advice! Read the power descriptions carefully:

All powers include the current Relic.

Note that Item 2: "Prior Proposal Minus Familiar" is strictly worse than option #3 in terms of effect- but might be more desirable if you believe item #2 could get made by TPTB, but item #3 would not - for example.

Also note that items 4-6 grant you an additional spell at each level, but these additional spells are not inherently castable as a free action. Those proposals also include a cast any spell as a free action 2/room.


I'm sorry the formatting is so totally awful - I did my best.


You'll need to scroll the form and provide a single answer for each of the 10 options as your 1st though 10th choice.

Thanks for being willing to engage with this! Come on - we're Wizards - if anyone is going to solve this with a survey and a spreadsheet - it's us!

Survey at:

forms.gle/wioPUYCQUKyCrgKJ7

Survey Closes at Midnight Eastern Time Tomorrow, Tuesday August 25th, and I'll report the results here (you can see the results so far after you take your survey though).

no options for raw +x spell damage?

Yeah - sorry - I skipped that one because in the L&L forums I posted the prior results of a different survey where +X spell damage was the top requested feature and since it didn't show up on any of the iterations, including after it was mentioned in the L&L section a few times I'm assuming it's off the table.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

NightGod wrote:

OrionW wrote: For better or worse, MEC is class defining for wizards. It makes sense to see it on the Legendary.

I agree that it makes sense to see it (or a similar effect) on the Legendary. I don't agree that it makes sense to see it as the only effect on the neck that most people will use regularly, because the other option uses consumable items that most wizards have given up on.

If we see a MEC like effect I would prefer it to be better than the MEC.

2x all damage for 1 round x/game so we actually get spell damage bonuses added in for once.

This is where my thoughts are at right now. If you're going to include MEC, then make it MEC+.
I also agree with the previous post that pointed out that every year, the impact of MEC becomes a little smaller.

I worked up damage comparisons for each option on the table. If anyone is interested in seeing how they compare PM me or message me on Discord. I don't want to distract from the conversation in this thread.

Not fully thought out, but if one were to lean completely in to MEC as the core of the Legendary:

UR: Reprint of MEC as a neck slot; also +2 damage with spells

Relic: MEC+ ability: MEC can now double damage against all monsters when MEC is used on multi-monster spells; also +2 damage spells and scrolls

Legendary: 1/game MEC doubles all bonuses as well as spell damage; also +2 damage with spells, scrolls, wands and polymorph

Adjust the add damage as needed for item balance. The thought on polymorph damage is a nod to the elf wizard even if it is likely not to ever be used.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Calling All Wizard - Helps us Get Aligned

The idea of the survey below is to find if we can all agree on some proposal or other as the best of the bunch.

I did my best to represent all the proposals here in this thread: there are 10 (including the current proposal from TPTB).

Please take this survey which force ranks all 10 options as your 1st, 2nd, 3rd, ... 10th favorite choice.

I hope that a miracle occurs and we can find 1-2 items that we all agree are the best of the bunch, or at least eliminate some options if we all agree that idea A is better than idea B.

Survey Advice! Read the power descriptions carefully:

All powers include the current Relic.

Note that Item 2: "Prior Proposal Minus Familiar" is strictly worse than option #3 in terms of effect- but might be more desirable if you believe item #2 could get made by TPTB, but item #3 would not - for example.

Also note that items 4-6 grant you an additional spell at each level, but these additional spells are not inherently castable as a free action. Those proposals also include a cast any spell as a free action 2/room.


I'm sorry the formatting is so totally awful - I did my best.


You'll need to scroll the form and provide a single answer for each of the 10 options as your 1st though 10th choice.

Thanks for being willing to engage with this! Come on - we're Wizards - if anyone is going to solve this with a survey and a spreadsheet - it's us!

Survey at:

forms.gle/wioPUYCQUKyCrgKJ7

Survey Closes at Midnight Eastern Time Tomorrow, Tuesday August 25th, and I'll report the results here (you can see the results so far after you take your survey though).

One note your last question - how important is something fun is widely variable. Familiar our reading Druid scrolls is about a 1 but getting 2 additional Psychic users is a 5+

This is the only Legendary that has a primary focus of its effect consume consumables.

If Medllion of Mystic Mouth must be included for regular Wizard, make the wands non-consumable like the Druid’s legendary with polymorph or the Monk’s legendary making shurikens returning. This one aspect alone makes this legendary more expensive than every other legendary in the game combined and it is substantially weaker than them.

Ugh, including MEC? I already don’t equip that token as it is and now it is one of the primary benefits of this token? Why do I want this legendary as a Wizard?

This legendary feels really lame because it is “relic + 2 URs, no flair”. A very boring token, no fun theme, no pizazz, and a really weak effect compared to every other legendary. I guess I’ll make the relic or maybe just buy the UR and not make either.

Is the goal to intentionally make the Wizard legendary weaker than all of the others? Do we want to make it blatantly clear Wizard is the least favorite class?

I take back everything I said about the last iteration. Last iteration was perfect in comparison to this unplayable monstrosity. The first iteration was also gold in comparison. Please don’t print this!!!

OrionW wrote: Not fully thought out, but if one were to lean completely in to MEC as the core of the Legendary:

UR: Reprint of MEC as a neck slot; also +2 damage with spells

Relic: MEC+ ability: MEC can now double damage against all monsters when MEC is used on multi-monster spells; also +2 damage spells and scrolls

Legendary: 1/game MEC doubles all bonuses as well as spell damage; also +2 damage with spells, scrolls, wands and polymorph

Adjust the add damage as needed for item balance. The thought on polymorph damage is a nod to the elf wizard even if it is likely not to ever be used.

We are FAR too far into creation to even consider a redesign of the token. There's not enough revisions left to get something into a good place if we did a rebuild.

Best I think we could hope for is to add an improved MEC effect to the Legendary

lose 10 HP as an instant action - Double all damage of spells this round
Can not equip Mad Evoker's Charm

Even that may be asking for too much if we want the 2 spell boxes per level back as a free action.

I think we should push for returning the +2 spellboxes as FA that the last iteration had and suggest something as a replacement for what the familiar was going to be.

I think there's value space left at the legendary for something small beyond the +2 boxes.

+5 Spell damage (WAY less than other Legendary tokens have provided)
Slide Spells critical
1/room cast a spell on card without consuming
Consume 2 of level X spells to regen 1 of X+1 as an instant action
ETC...

Previous expressed my opinion on both MoMM and MEC. Both are not items I would ever use including similar powers.

I am ok if it ends up like the ranger legendary where the main power only applies to one type of wizard. Even if all powers of legendary apply to types of wizards I choose not to play.