TOPIC: 2021 Fighter Relic & Legendary Feedback

To be really clear, I support the tokens as they are.

But I’m willing to compromise some to get it done.

I’ve been encouraged by some of the recent dialogue.

Ultimately it’s Jeff’s call, of course. It’s his playground, he’s generous enough to share it with us.

Endgame wrote: That would fit the DnD weapon mastery scale a little better. Relic is high master, legendary is grand master.

The legendary may be tight for space if it can’t keyword off of the relic though.

Maybe keyword the X = to Shield AC as deflect?

Relic becomes
+5 str, +3 Dex, +2 con and Deflect

Legendary becomes:
+7 str, +3 Dex, +4 con, Deflect, whirlwind, and 19-20 crit?

Could save a few characters changing the name from whirlwind to cleave...

Re: Stat changes... I like it. Overall, I think the current Legendary is great, but the step-up from Relic to Legendary is a little small. This change corrects that.

Re: Cleave vs Whirlwind. In D&D Cleave requires you to kill the first creature before you can attack the second. In D&D Whirlwind attacks target within melee range. The proposed power is neither of those really. So I guess either could work.

Re: Deflect. Too close to Monk's Deflect Missiles for me. Shield Mastery?

I want to be clear I support the current considerations for fighter and has been a improvement over previous designs.

All of the current relic paths are somewhat frontloaded slightly with options that are baked into the legendary.

People need to get out of here with the nerf hammer and that this is too powerful. As is in the current environment The chances where whirlwind may occur Is what 10 -15 % across an entire adventure season? This is a flavor mechanic. Trust me I hope we get more multi mob rooms in the future but I’m not getting my hopes up.

Yes the relic/legendary seems not very thematic but guess what? Fighters slide! Unless they give a mechanic that works for our sliding this current consideration its just ok. This pathway doesn’t really move the needle damage wise considering the other melee classes. This pathway just allows the fighter to their job a bit better, helps use the tools that are out there, and be a touch more resilient.

Yes it’s a good chunk of raw stats but in the end we have already seen str go down by 1. As a fighter I can already practically punch God so strength as a +to hit really has a ceiling under current monster stats.

Monk +7dmg on both attacks
Ranger +9dmg
Barbarian +10dmg

Fighter +3dmg

....

So yes I support a expanded crit range. At least there is skill in sliding that had to occur and that’s probably as thematic as we are going to get.

Endgame wrote: That would fit the DnD weapon mastery scale a little better. Relic is high master, legendary is grand master.

The legendary may be tight for space if it can’t keyword off of the relic though.

Maybe keyword the X = to Shield AC as deflect?

Relic becomes
+5 str, +3 Dex, +2 con and Deflect

Legendary becomes:
+7 str, +3 Dex, +4 con, Deflect, whirlwind, and 19-20 crit?

Could save a few characters changing the name from whirlwind to cleave...

Relic becomes a clear step up for Stu, but not-so-much for Valhalla or Sweetwood. +4 con on the relic?

Milambus (Jake) wrote:

Endgame wrote: That would fit the DnD weapon mastery scale a little better. Relic is high master, legendary is grand master.

The legendary may be tight for space if it can’t keyword off of the relic though.

Maybe keyword the X = to Shield AC as deflect?

Relic becomes
+5 str, +3 Dex, +2 con and Deflect

Legendary becomes:
+7 str, +3 Dex, +4 con, Deflect, whirlwind, and 19-20 crit?

Could save a few characters changing the name from whirlwind to cleave...

Re: Stat changes... I like it. Overall, I think the current Legendary is great, but the step-up from Relic to Legendary is a little small. This change corrects that.

Re: Cleave vs Whirlwind. In D&D Cleave requires you to kill the first creature before you can attack the second. In D&D Whirlwind attacks target within melee range. The proposed power is neither of those really. So I guess either could work.

Re: Deflect. Too close to Monk's Deflect Missiles for me. Shield Mastery?

By shield mastery you mean added AC? If so that’s where we started, but people weren’t wild about it.

Or some level of elemental resistance or reduction from the shield? -2 fire, -2 cold, and -2 shock?

Lequinian wrote:

Endgame wrote: That would fit the DnD weapon mastery scale a little better. Relic is high master, legendary is grand master.

The legendary may be tight for space if it can’t keyword off of the relic though.

Maybe keyword the X = to Shield AC as deflect?

Relic becomes
+5 str, +3 Dex, +2 con and Deflect

Legendary becomes:
+7 str, +3 Dex, +4 con, Deflect, whirlwind, and 19-20 crit?

Could save a few characters changing the name from whirlwind to cleave...

Relic becomes a clear step up for Stu, but not-so-much for Valhalla or Sweetwood. +4 con on the relic?

Sure, I’d go for that. Prepare to be called OP.

Justice wrote: I want to be clear I support the current considerations for fighter and has been a improvement over previous designs.

All of the current relic paths are somewhat frontloaded slightly with options that are baked into the legendary.

People need to get out of here with the nerf hammer and that this is too powerful. As is in the current environment The chances where whirlwind may occur Is what 10 -15 % across an entire adventure season? This is a flavor mechanic. Trust me I hope we get more multi mob rooms in the future but I’m not getting my hopes up.

Yes the relic/legendary seems not very thematic but guess what? Fighters slide! Unless they give a mechanic that works for our sliding this current consideration its just ok. This pathway doesn’t really move the needle damage wise considering the other melee classes. This pathway just allows the fighter to their job a bit better, helps use the tools that are out there, and be a touch more resilient.

Yes it’s a good chunk of raw stats but in the end we have already seen str go down by 1. As a fighter I can already practically punch God so strength as a +to hit really has a ceiling under current monster stats.

Monk +7dmg on both attacks
Ranger +9dmg
Barbarian +10dmg

Fighter +3dmg

....

So yes I support a expanded crit range. At least there is skill in sliding that had to occur and that’s probably as thematic as we are going to get.

+1 amen brother

Harlax wrote:

Milambus (Jake) wrote: Re: Deflect. Too close to Monk's Deflect Missiles for me. Shield Mastery?

By shield mastery you mean added AC? If so that’s where we started, but people weren’t wild about it.

No, I mean just call the current ability (Shield AC adds to Reflex saves) Shield Mastery. Sorry I wasn't clear, I was only commenting on the name.

Harlax wrote:

FatalDrakkon wrote:

Miathan wrote:

FatalDrakkon wrote: Thematically fighters don't have magic spells or supernatural abilities. Just a martial devotion to honing their bodies into a deadly weapon.

Fighters are the only class that I think warrants raw stats because they slide the puck and move.

A spcial maneuver here or there will come up sometimes but they are a raw sliding class.

And a raw sliding class benefits the most from raw numbers.

Because barbarians are magically enhanced?

Barbarians have rage, use 2 handers and arguably the best damage dealing in the game. But this is about fighters.

I dont want to argue or for things to get heated. I'm open to suggestions on how we can change things.

We've come a long way since the first proposed token and we can still go the distance.

I’m open to ideas as well. “This sucks” is not an idea.

I don’t think I said it sucked I think I said it’s a no brainer best token.

How bout +4 dam
+2 dam for each puck between yours and the damage dot
May equip 2h weapons as one handed
Shield ac added to reflex saves.

This is thematic in your sliding and rewards it greatly

Harlax wrote:

Lequinian wrote:

Endgame wrote: That would fit the DnD weapon mastery scale a little better. Relic is high master, legendary is grand master.

The legendary may be tight for space if it can’t keyword off of the relic though.

Maybe keyword the X = to Shield AC as deflect?

Relic becomes
+5 str, +3 Dex, +2 con and Deflect

Legendary becomes:
+7 str, +3 Dex, +4 con, Deflect, whirlwind, and 19-20 crit?

Could save a few characters changing the name from whirlwind to cleave...

Relic becomes a clear step up for Stu, but not-so-much for Valhalla or Sweetwood. +4 con on the relic?

Sure, I’d go for that. Prepare to be called OP.

Don’t lean too heavily on Sweetwood just yet. That design is not yet final and some are debating whether to drop it or drop Stu Pendous from this years set. I suspect it will survive, but strange things happen sometimes as the final set ( or final final or revised final final) is put to bed.

Milambus (Jake) wrote:

Endgame wrote: That would fit the DnD weapon mastery scale a little better. Relic is high master, legendary is grand master.

The legendary may be tight for space if it can’t keyword off of the relic though.

Maybe keyword the X = to Shield AC as deflect?

Relic becomes
+5 str, +3 Dex, +2 con and Deflect

Legendary becomes:
+7 str, +3 Dex, +4 con, Deflect, whirlwind, and 19-20 crit?

Could save a few characters changing the name from whirlwind to cleave...

Re: Stat changes... I like it. Overall, I think the current Legendary is great, but the step-up from Relic to Legendary is a little small. This change corrects that.

Re: Cleave vs Whirlwind. In D&D Cleave requires you to kill the first creature before you can attack the second. In D&D Whirlwind attacks target within melee range. The proposed power is neither of those really. So I guess either could work.

Re: Deflect. Too close to Monk's Deflect Missiles for me. Shield Mastery?

I think he is trying to find ways to have less text to fit on the token.

Justice wrote:
People need to get out of here with the nerf hammer and that this is too powerful. 2022 token! The Nerf Hammer.


Yes the relic/legendary seems not very thematic. I find it quite thematic.