TOPIC: 2021 Fighter Relic & Legendary Feedback

Harlax wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Harlax wrote: Expanding Critical Range by 1 versus setting all to 19-20 would benefit 4 UR, 2 Relic and 2 Legendary weapons. All of them have a range of 19-20 except Io's which has a range of 18-20.

Io's has the same Dex requirement as Thor's. But Io's is not eligible for Whirlwind as its ranged. (Neither is Thor's in ranged mode, of course)

tokendb.com/Misc/expanded-crit-range/?fwp_usable_by=fighter&fwp_rare_box=ultra-rare%2Ctransmuted-relic-5-pt%2Ctransmuted-legendary

Lol! So are you for or against it?

I'm providing information. Here are some thoughts.. A small number or weapons are changed.. Most of the big hitters would not be changed. Averon's for example. Or Welfors.. Both would crit on 19 under either system..

Many are out of print.

But we don't know what weapons will come in the future.

The impact would be biggest in VTD. Thor's would crit 30% of the time. Io's 40% of the time (but no STR bonus, but others would apply).

The impact is probably lower for in person TD where puck get bumped, some boards are fast or slow, some boards have generous crit zones, most don't.

We don't know how much Whirlwind will come up. If there is an increase in multi monster rooms The more valuable expanded crit becomes. So we don't know.

I just think that expanded crit range can help the token go the distance and help everyone out. Everyone can benefit from expanded crit range.

And Thor's and Io's are quite few and far between and buffing them wouldn't affect too much of the damage pool.

More thoughts. 19-20 is simple. Simple has advantages. Less confusion potential for DMs. Confusion = lost time. Time is your enemy.

Expanded Crit would be fun. And the munchkin in me says "bring it on." But I would not be willing to give up Whirlwind or any of the stats to get it. And I'm afraid that is what it would take.

Harlax wrote: More thoughts. 19-20 is simple. Simple has advantages. Less confusion potential for DMs. Confusion = lost time. Time is your enemy.

Expanded Crit would be fun. And the munchkin in me says "bring it on." But I would not be willing to give up Whirlwind or any of the stats to get it. And I'm afraid that is what it would take.

As it is, if the crit range isn't on the weapon, you'll have to explain it every time anyways.

Thinking that if the direction for fighters is to be specialized in weapons and in all types of weapons than an across the board expanded crit range makes senses. Crit with a spear, crit with a dagger, crit with an axe, crit with a hammer, crit with a club, etc. To me this is very specialized and different than attacking multiple opponents in the same round which is another very specialization. Attacking mulitple opponents would make it less likely to be able to crit anyone of them. Not sure how to balance between the two of these though. Maybe give fighters an option to decide to do one or other each turn before sliding.

edwin wrote: Thinking that if the direction for fighters is to be specialized in weapons and in all types of weapons than an across the board expanded crit range makes senses. Crit with a spear, crit with a dagger, crit with an axe, crit with a hammer, crit with a club, etc. To me this is very specialized and different than attacking multiple opponents in the same round which is another very specialization. Attacking mulitple opponents would make it less likely to be able to crit anyone of them. Not sure how to balance between the two of these though. Maybe give fighters an option to decide to do one or other each turn before sliding.

Adding a choice before slide would definitely cause some confusion especially while trying to keep things going fast in combat.

That being said, telling the DM "I crit on an 18 because I have the legendary neck" would be a very fast conversation.

There lies in the rub.

I was thinking choose crit you get the expanded range to a single foe, choose whirlwind you get your damage not multplied to one foe if you hit-two foes if you crit-three foes if you slide a 20.

Result could be 40, 80 or 120 to one foe.
OR
40 to one foe, 40 to two foes, or 40 to three foes.

Dwarf fighter being more determine could potentially due up to 4 foes with whirlwind.

edwin wrote: There lies in the rub.

I was thinking choose crit you get the expanded range to a single foe, choose whirlwind you get your damage not multplied to one foe if you hit-two foes if you crit-three foes if you slide a 20.

Result could be 40, 80 or 120 to one foe.
OR
40 to one foe, 40 to two foes, or 40 to three foes.

Dwarf fighter being more determine could potentially due up to 4 foes with whirlwind.

Not sure how you figure 4 targets are possible.

Whirlwind Attack: If you hit one monster in the room with a melee attack, and another monster is also in melee range, the same amount of damage will be done to the second monster automatically.

If more than two are possible, that wording needs some work.

I don't see "another monster" as meaning one and only one other.

I think of whirlwind, I think of hitting everything in melee range.

Scrael from 2017? All of you take this......

Fiddy wrote:

Harlax wrote: More thoughts. 19-20 is simple. Simple has advantages. Less confusion potential for DMs. Confusion = lost time. Time is your enemy.

Expanded Crit would be fun. And the munchkin in me says "bring it on." But I would not be willing to give up Whirlwind or any of the stats to get it. And I'm afraid that is what it would take.

As it is, if the crit range isn't on the weapon, you'll have to explain it every time anyways.

And Whirlwind for that matter. Although there are some parties that DMs will come to know as loaded for bear. Or Orc, or whatever. You know, when we walk into the room and the DM is thinking "these jerks again, great"

We will have to watch the board carefully and be ready to point out both things before the DM sweeps the pucks back.

Harlax wrote:

edwin wrote: There lies in the rub.

I was thinking choose crit you get the expanded range to a single foe, choose whirlwind you get your damage not multplied to one foe if you hit-two foes if you crit-three foes if you slide a 20.

Result could be 40, 80 or 120 to one foe.
OR
40 to one foe, 40 to two foes, or 40 to three foes.

Dwarf fighter being more determine could potentially due up to 4 foes with whirlwind.

Not sure how you figure 4 targets are possible.

Whirlwind Attack: If you hit one monster in the room with a melee attack, and another monster is also in melee range, the same amount of damage will be done to the second monster automatically.

If more than two are possible, that wording needs some work.

It's cool if you want to limit it to just two and to just melee, but figure it would be more thematic to allow more and not restrict it to melee.

edwin wrote:

Harlax wrote:

edwin wrote: There lies in the rub.

I was thinking choose crit you get the expanded range to a single foe, choose whirlwind you get your damage not multplied to one foe if you hit-two foes if you crit-three foes if you slide a 20.

Result could be 40, 80 or 120 to one foe.
OR
40 to one foe, 40 to two foes, or 40 to three foes.

Dwarf fighter being more determine could potentially due up to 4 foes with whirlwind.

Not sure how you figure 4 targets are possible.

Whirlwind Attack: If you hit one monster in the room with a melee attack, and another monster is also in melee range, the same amount of damage will be done to the second monster automatically.

If more than two are possible, that wording needs some work.

It's cool if you want to limit it to just two and to just melee, but figure it would be more thematic to allow more and not restrict it to melee.

It says Melee range, so my assumption was that unless it was a flying monster, across a chasm or some other hosing mechanism, it was in melee range. But maybe not. More clarification needed.

But if its melee only, you can drop my concern about Io's out of my earlier analysis. Then is really all about Thors.

So basically legendary belt + medallion of the sweetwoods + busting Reflex save = one crazy powered relic that may be the second best token in the game just behind the legendary.
I think this is way overpowered.