TOPIC: Special Note on Aug. 7th

Endgame wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote: Please, no to number of slots based on attribute score. Make int and wis attribute modifiers for skill checks for spell damage or healing. Allow players to b either go the sage route with their build or a higher reward but riskier skill check based Build.

We just nerfed healing (or at least the lenses of divine sight). A goodly number of focus items have appeared in the last few years. We already have healing bonuses in the 20s. This will lead to more nerfing.

I don’t think this is an issue at all if you have +wis items duplicate slots with existing focus items.

Ex, belt of the wise: +8 wisdom. You now have the option for the arcane belt (+2 Healing, melee damage, ranged damage, and spell damage) or +4 heal when you pass a skill check and +4 will save. Total healing would even go down Unless you pass all your skill checks (you would miss out on 8 Healing from cure minor wounds As it has no skill check)

Charm of Enlightenment.

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote: Please, no to number of slots based on attribute score. Make int and wis attribute modifiers for skill checks for spell damage or healing. Allow players to b either go the sage route with their build or a higher reward but riskier skill check based Build.

We just nerfed healing (or at least the lenses of divine sight). A goodly number of focus items have appeared in the last few years. We already have healing bonuses in the 20s. This will lead to more nerfing.

I don’t think this is an issue at all if you have +wis items duplicate slots with existing focus items.

Ex, belt of the wise: +8 wisdom. You now have the option for the arcane belt (+2 Healing, melee damage, ranged damage, and spell damage) or +4 heal when you pass a skill check and +4 will save. Total healing would even go down Unless you pass all your skill checks (you would miss out on 8 Healing from cure minor wounds As it has no skill check)

Charm of Enlightenment.

Sure, +4 to heal on a passed skill check. What Charm are you going to bump to put it in? Not CoA, CoAS, glory, or Spell swapping ( If you trade spell swapping for it, you reduce total healing ). Maybe drop brooching and take a hit to saves, which is likely a terrible idea.

Worst case, If Enlightenment is the deal breaker reprint as +4 will.

There are plenty of ways to have many, many charms. Its not that hard to get it into a build.

And them we start adding whatever new items you are proposing.

Onto a Druid who already has 19 WIS, so +4 out of the gate.

Harlax wrote: There are plenty of ways to have many, many charms. Its not that hard to get it into a build.

And them we start adding whatever new items you are proposing.

Onto a Druid who already has 19 WIS, so +4 out of the gate.

Skill checks are currently +3, so a Druid Gets +4 on a passed skill check on 3 spells. This is OK, and allows for skill check scaling to nightmare. The Druid will also have to choose between stacking int or will if they want to go there skill check risk route, so less jack of all trades.

As for stacking charm expanders, taking Charm bracelets and arcane bracelets are mutually exclusive, and you loose healing if you drop the arcane set bonus for a charm of enlightenment. Charm necklace means not taking class relic / legendary, and Orion’s Belt costs you healing over using arcane belt.

The skill check modifier is Just a better scaling solution than just tossing in more slots for wis and int.

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote: Please, no to number of slots based on attribute score. Make int and wis attribute modifiers for skill checks for spell damage or healing. Allow players to b either go the sage route with their build or a higher reward but riskier skill check based Build.

We just nerfed healing (or at least the lenses of divine sight). A goodly number of focus items have appeared in the last few years. We already have healing bonuses in the 20s. This will lead to more nerfing.

I don’t think this is an issue at all if you have +wis items duplicate slots with existing focus items.

Ex, belt of the wise: +8 wisdom. You now have the option for the arcane belt (+2 Healing, melee damage, ranged damage, and spell damage) or +4 heal when you pass a skill check and +4 will save. Total healing would even go down Unless you pass all your skill checks (you would miss out on 8 Healing from cure minor wounds As it has no skill check)

Charm of Enlightenment.

I don’t understand how this one rate token comes up every time as a deal breaker to change how int/wis will be looked at. It’s one rare token and so many ways exist to just get rid of it if it truly is the one major road block

Show me another rare token that add +8 to a stat that is meaningful.

In any case, we have all made our points here. TPTB will sort it out.

Harlax wrote: Show me another rare token that add +8 to a stat that is meaningful.

In any case, we have all made our points here. TPTB will sort it out.

You are right about how unique it is!

I think the point is one rare token from several years ago shouldn’t dictate the design of a mechanic (e.g. wisdom matters). We should design a mechanic, and then deal with charm of enlightenment for example by errating it to be +4 to Will saves or something if it’s operation with the newly designed mechanic is a problem.

Same for INT and hat of intellect.

It has a very peculiar history. It came out the same year as the original version of Lenses of Divine Sight. The original required a wisdom of 20 to equip so some form of WIS booster was needed. Many argued at the time against the +8 on the charm as it was way more than needed for the lenses and as restricting the design space for future WIS abilities. The rationale given was that the +4 to will saves was the motivation for the design.

Now the Lenses do not have a WIS requirement,

Unless class designs are in the plan for 2021, we are kind of spinning our wheels here. And I'm not sure how you design tokens for this purpose unless you know what the class redesign looks like.

Jeff Martin wrote: Please organize all your great feedback and suggestions so far into these other categories. I am going to pull heavily from the V-series for the design ideas. This will make the tokens useful for the upcoming modules -- and it will give us some themes to draw from.

V1 - Faerie forest and alienpunk
V2 - Mountains and dwarven items
V3 - Mine and undead
V4 - Marsh and goblin shaman items
V5 - Classic horror, crypt and clerical temple type items

And yes, there will be an UR Dalin's Ring. Thanks!

Rereading this I think I might have misunderstood the instructions.

Do you have an idea of how best we can organize suggestions into these categories?

Should we be tagging each suggested token with one of V1-5 where thematically appropriate?

I thought TPTB specifically said they don’t want to tie slots to skills and want to remove the extra figurine tied to charisma, then revamp CHA, WIS, and INT to do something that scales as the stats get bigger and does not affect slot numbers or add/remove access to spells/skills on the character cards.

That kind of limited design ideas to saves, puzzle-related effects instead of combat effects, or effects tied to the skill tests specifically.

Anthony Barnstable wrote: I thought TPTB specifically said they don’t want to tie slots to skills and want to remove the extra figurine tied to charisma, then revamp CHA, WIS, and INT to do something that scales as the stats get bigger and does not affect slot numbers or add/remove access to spells/skills on the character cards.

That kind of limited design ideas to saves, puzzle-related effects instead of combat effects, or effects tied to the skill tests specifically.

Do you have a link to when that was said? I'd be interested in reading that.

Mike Steele wrote:

Anthony Barnstable wrote: I thought TPTB specifically said they don’t want to tie slots to skills and want to remove the extra figurine tied to charisma, then revamp CHA, WIS, and INT to do something that scales as the stats get bigger and does not affect slot numbers or add/remove access to spells/skills on the character cards.

That kind of limited design ideas to saves, puzzle-related effects instead of combat effects, or effects tied to the skill tests specifically.

Do you have a link to when that was said? I'd be interested in reading that.

That’s not what I recall at all.