TOPIC: Transmute Token Ideas

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Miathan wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Another reason I just thought of to go away from static AC. The random new person that draws one. They might otherwise still be equipped for Normal or possibly HC. That static AC is going to be tougher for them to hit than just hitting the regular monster AC.

That is true.

Perhaps have it give +3 to spell slides as part of the token and let it go against monster AC.

Wizards are generally fairly low on +to hit so a little bump goes a long way.

If I was on the normal level and I pulled a class legendary I would be trading it for URs or TEs or a mix of both. I wouldn’t be running around without having a token in every slot and then have a legendary but that’s me

Not.me, I'd show that thing off every chance I got.

Me too! Heck, I'd consider switching my primary class if I pulled a legendary, even if I had to pair it with mostly rares and general / generic URs.

Fiddy wrote: Another reason I just thought of to go away from static AC. The random new person that draws one. They might otherwise still be equipped for Normal or possibly HC. That static AC is going to be tougher for them to hit than just hitting the regular monster AC.

I think in the other threads dealing with spells identified that pretty much nobody's running out of spells unless they have cabal or are in grind. It may be possible that a new player that draws one of these would not be able to hit on a 25, but they also probably never need to try.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Another reason I just thought of to go away from static AC. The random new person that draws one. They might otherwise still be equipped for Normal or possibly HC. That static AC is going to be tougher for them to hit than just hitting the regular monster AC.

That is true.

Perhaps have it give +3 to spell slides as part of the token and let it go against monster AC.

Wizards are generally fairly low on +to hit so a little bump goes a long way.

Prefer no additional bonus to hit AC 25.

Aegoce wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Another reason I just thought of to go away from static AC. The random new person that draws one. They might otherwise still be equipped for Normal or possibly HC. That static AC is going to be tougher for them to hit than just hitting the regular monster AC.

I think in the other threads dealing with spells identified that pretty much nobody's running out of spells unless they have cabal or are in grind. It may be possible that a new player that draws one of these would not be able to hit on a 25, but they also probably never need to try.

There are cases when my elf wizard does not have a suitable damaging spell. In those cases I would slide. I also do not equip elemental changing tokens.

edwin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Another reason I just thought of to go away from static AC. The random new person that draws one. They might otherwise still be equipped for Normal or possibly HC. That static AC is going to be tougher for them to hit than just hitting the regular monster AC.

That is true.

Perhaps have it give +3 to spell slides as part of the token and let it go against monster AC.

Wizards are generally fairly low on +to hit so a little bump goes a long way.

Prefer no additional bonus to hit AC 25.

The static AC target of 25 as a spell slide seems to be the most positively received option of those discussed.
I would definitely support the Relic/Legendary having a spell slide built in on AC 25 target that has a damage type wheel instead of a damage number wheel. I think it would be a fun, unique way to give the Wizards in grind/cabal wizards/wizards not wanting to burn a spell in round 3 of a fight to have a good way to continue participating in the combat.

I really hope Jeff is willing to consider this, it'd resolve one of my core issues with the Wizard class and remove my reason for refusing to run Grind. (not that it affects other people, but I choose not to true grind due to the need for me to spend money on low damage tokens in order to participate the whole time)

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

edwin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Another reason I just thought of to go away from static AC. The random new person that draws one. They might otherwise still be equipped for Normal or possibly HC. That static AC is going to be tougher for them to hit than just hitting the regular monster AC.

That is true.

Perhaps have it give +3 to spell slides as part of the token and let it go against monster AC.

Wizards are generally fairly low on +to hit so a little bump goes a long way.

Prefer no additional bonus to hit AC 25.

The static AC target of 25 as a spell slide seems to be the most positively received option of those discussed.
I would definitely support the Relic/Legendary having a spell slide built in on AC 25 target that has a damage type wheel instead of a damage number wheel. I think it would be a fun, unique way to give the Wizards in grind/cabal wizards/wizards not wanting to burn a spell in round 3 of a fight to have a good way to continue participating in the combat.

I really hope Jeff is willing to consider this, it'd resolve one of my core issues with the Wizard class and remove my reason for refusing to run Grind. (not that it affects other people, but I choose not to true grind due to the need for me to spend money on low damage tokens in order to participate the whole time)

I would say the legendary you probably need to choose one of these 3:
1) add a potentially significant amount damage (thus still having the risk of running out of spells)
2) give a free first or second level spell that can be cast either on a limited basis (1/room)
3) slide against monster AC with an unlimited amount of casting.

Endgame wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

edwin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Another reason I just thought of to go away from static AC. The random new person that draws one. They might otherwise still be equipped for Normal or possibly HC. That static AC is going to be tougher for them to hit than just hitting the regular monster AC.

That is true.

Perhaps have it give +3 to spell slides as part of the token and let it go against monster AC.

Wizards are generally fairly low on +to hit so a little bump goes a long way.

Prefer no additional bonus to hit AC 25.

The static AC target of 25 as a spell slide seems to be the most positively received option of those discussed.
I would definitely support the Relic/Legendary having a spell slide built in on AC 25 target that has a damage type wheel instead of a damage number wheel. I think it would be a fun, unique way to give the Wizards in grind/cabal wizards/wizards not wanting to burn a spell in round 3 of a fight to have a good way to continue participating in the combat.

I really hope Jeff is willing to consider this, it'd resolve one of my core issues with the Wizard class and remove my reason for refusing to run Grind. (not that it affects other people, but I choose not to true grind due to the need for me to spend money on low damage tokens in order to participate the whole time)

I would say the legendary you probably need to choose one of these 3:
1) add a potentially significant amount damage (thus still having the risk of running out of spells)
2) give a free first or second level spell that can be cast either on a limited basis (1/room)
3) slide against monster AC with an unlimited amount of casting.

Why?

The Monk got a damage boost, a skills boost and a UR token power and a psychic power trigger

The Rogue got a massive crit boost on sneak attack, ignores crit immunity and can sneak twice 1/room

The Barbarian got a damage boost, another Rage 1/game and a unique 2/game effect

even the Ranger got a Ranged damage boost, a CON boost and the ability to summon an animal while ranged attacking for additional damage.


Why should the Wizards only get 1 effect when every other class gets 3?

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

edwin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Another reason I just thought of to go away from static AC. The random new person that draws one. They might otherwise still be equipped for Normal or possibly HC. That static AC is going to be tougher for them to hit than just hitting the regular monster AC.

That is true.

Perhaps have it give +3 to spell slides as part of the token and let it go against monster AC.

Wizards are generally fairly low on +to hit so a little bump goes a long way.

Prefer no additional bonus to hit AC 25.

The static AC target of 25 as a spell slide seems to be the most positively received option of those discussed.
I would definitely support the Relic/Legendary having a spell slide built in on AC 25 target that has a damage type wheel instead of a damage number wheel. I think it would be a fun, unique way to give the Wizards in grind/cabal wizards/wizards not wanting to burn a spell in round 3 of a fight to have a good way to continue participating in the combat.

I really hope Jeff is willing to consider this, it'd resolve one of my core issues with the Wizard class and remove my reason for refusing to run Grind. (not that it affects other people, but I choose not to true grind due to the need for me to spend money on low damage tokens in order to participate the whole time)

I would say the legendary you probably need to choose one of these 3:
1) add a potentially significant amount damage (thus still having the risk of running out of spells)
2) give a free first or second level spell that can be cast either on a limited basis (1/room)
3) slide against monster AC with an unlimited amount of casting.

Why?

The Monk got a damage boost, a skills boost and a UR token power and a psychic power trigger

The Rogue got a massive crit boost on sneak attack, ignores crit immunity and can sneak twice 1/room

The Barbarian got a damage boost, another Rage 1/game and a unique 2/game effect

even the Ranger got a Ranged damage boost, a CON boost and the ability to summon an animal while ranged attacking for additional damage.


Why should the Wizards only get 1 effect when every other class gets 3?

I certainly think 3 - 4 abilities are a given. I don’t think you can expect that the legendary will both launch you higher in the class damage rankings (some of the suggestions seen so far would add +30 damage or more, adding dramatically more guaranteed damage than any other class’s legendary) while also removing the limited nature of spells. Pick one, not both

agree to disagree, not worth arguing with you

Aegoce wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Another reason I just thought of to go away from static AC. The random new person that draws one. They might otherwise still be equipped for Normal or possibly HC. That static AC is going to be tougher for them to hit than just hitting the regular monster AC.

I think in the other threads dealing with spells identified that pretty much nobody's running out of spells unless they have cabal or are in grind. It may be possible that a new player that draws one of these would not be able to hit on a 25, but they also probably never need to try.

I believe if you look at the people who are never running out of spells, they are probably in part achieving that with support from multiple other URs like Charm of spell swapping, ring of spell storing, crown of expertise, getting to level 5 somehow.

A level 4 wizard has 10 damage spells. A level 5 wizard has 14.

There is no difficulty in running out of 10 damage spells in a 4 combat dungeon.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

edwin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Another reason I just thought of to go away from static AC. The random new person that draws one. They might otherwise still be equipped for Normal or possibly HC. That static AC is going to be tougher for them to hit than just hitting the regular monster AC.

That is true.

Perhaps have it give +3 to spell slides as part of the token and let it go against monster AC.

Wizards are generally fairly low on +to hit so a little bump goes a long way.

Prefer no additional bonus to hit AC 25.

The static AC target of 25 as a spell slide seems to be the most positively received option of those discussed.
I would definitely support the Relic/Legendary having a spell slide built in on AC 25 target that has a damage type wheel instead of a damage number wheel. I think it would be a fun, unique way to give the Wizards in grind/cabal wizards/wizards not wanting to burn a spell in round 3 of a fight to have a good way to continue participating in the combat.

I really hope Jeff is willing to consider this, it'd resolve one of my core issues with the Wizard class and remove my reason for refusing to run Grind. (not that it affects other people, but I choose not to true grind due to the need for me to spend money on low damage tokens in order to participate the whole time)

I would say the legendary you probably need to choose one of these 3:
1) add a potentially significant amount damage (thus still having the risk of running out of spells)
2) give a free first or second level spell that can be cast either on a limited basis (1/room)
3) slide against monster AC with an unlimited amount of casting.

Why?

The Monk got a damage boost, a skills boost and a UR token power and a psychic power trigger

The Rogue got a massive crit boost on sneak attack, ignores crit immunity and can sneak twice 1/room

The Barbarian got a damage boost, another Rage 1/game and a unique 2/game effect

even the Ranger got a Ranged damage boost, a CON boost and the ability to summon an animal while ranged attacking for additional damage.


Why should the Wizards only get 1 effect when every other class gets 3?

Every other class? I notice you didn't include Druid on that list.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Aegoce wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Another reason I just thought of to go away from static AC. The random new person that draws one. They might otherwise still be equipped for Normal or possibly HC. That static AC is going to be tougher for them to hit than just hitting the regular monster AC.

I think in the other threads dealing with spells identified that pretty much nobody's running out of spells unless they have cabal or are in grind. It may be possible that a new player that draws one of these would not be able to hit on a 25, but they also probably never need to try.

I believe if you look at the people who are never running out of spells, they are probably in part achieving that with support from multiple other URs like Charm of spell swapping, ring of spell storing, crown of expertise, getting to level 5 somehow.

A level 4 wizard has 10 damage spells. A level 5 wizard has 14.

There is no difficulty in running out of 10 damage spells in a 4 combat dungeon.

For the level 4 wizard running Normal, bring necklace and ring of the Norns / medallion of energy if you’re worried about spell count. That adds an extra 8 spell casts, though ring of the Norns does let you double up with another spell cast.

Maybe a build like this:
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=570&id=250935&start=0#361643

Edit - the plus side with that build is that the ranged attack is also comparable damage wise to the level 0 spells, so the first combat action in the first combat room can be a ranged attack to preserve a spell too.