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TOPIC: New Slot Thought

New Slot Thought 2 months 3 days ago #61

Endgame wrote: I think It’s actually ok to get to a point where the few “has BIS everywhere” buyers don’t have much to buy out of the standard set. It looks like there will always be multi year UR transmutes, and we don’t have legendary tokens in every slot yet (or even relics) so those players will have stuff to still get. This is triple true if keeping the big buyer means driving away dozens of new players. Eventually the Current BIS big spenders will age out / quit / Whatever, so it’s definitely best to keep the amount of new blood coming in higher than old blood going out.


Hopefully there's a way to have interesting tokens for "best in slot" players to buy without driving away new players. :)

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New Slot Thought 2 months 3 days ago #62

Endgame wrote: I think It’s actually ok to get to a point where the few “has BIS everywhere” buyers don’t have much to buy out of the standard set. It looks like there will always be multi year UR transmutes, and we don’t have legendary tokens in every slot yet (or even relics) so those players will have stuff to still get. This is triple true if keeping the big buyer means driving away dozens of new players. Eventually the Current BIS big spenders will age out / quit / Whatever, so it’s definitely best to keep the amount of new blood coming in higher than old blood going out.


I agree with this sentiment. Big token buyers have years worth of treasure enhancers to scoop up. Not to mention the upcoming Arcanum transmutes.

Someday (or so I hear), there'll be a character card redesign that realigns how we think about the lesser 3 stats. That would create a new area of token design to explore.
"IMHO we like to solve problems here on the forums that are only perceived problems due to a myopic view." -Bob Chasan
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New Slot Thought 2 months 3 days ago #63

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote: I think It’s actually ok to get to a point where the few “has BIS everywhere” buyers don’t have much to buy out of the standard set. It looks like there will always be multi year UR transmutes, and we don’t have legendary tokens in every slot yet (or even relics) so those players will have stuff to still get. This is triple true if keeping the big buyer means driving away dozens of new players. Eventually the Current BIS big spenders will age out / quit / Whatever, so it’s definitely best to keep the amount of new blood coming in higher than old blood going out.


Hopefully there's a way to have interesting tokens for "best in slot" players to buy without driving away new players. :)

Hopefully Arcanum set, relic and Legendary eye, ioun Stone, hand, wrist, ear, charm, shirt, pants,greaves, bead, boots, figurine can keep things interesting. Worst case, there are slots that only have 1 relic and legendary that could get another, such as belt, head, and offhand.

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New Slot Thought 2 months 2 days ago #64

Mike Steele wrote: If there ever were a limit on slotless tokens (for example no more than 15), I like the idea of a Bag of Holding, which would allow additional slotless tokens. There could be different rarities of Bags of Holding with the higher rarities holding more additional slotless tokens, and a limit of one Bag of Holding (a Bag of Holding slot of one). :)


I really like this idea. +1 to this if there ever is a cap on slotless.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." - Albert Einstein

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New Slot Thought 2 months 2 days ago #65

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote: I would think the bag of holding would be a way to avoid the slot less gear cap, but with usage cost.

Ex: You have 5 gear slots. Bag of Holding uses 5 slots, and can contain unlimited items. However, retrieving an item from the bag of holding uses a free action.

Another thought I have on new slots in general - we are already close to jumping the shark on slots (Bead slot? Really?). It’s really not a problem for someone in deep, but the more slots, the worse it looks from the outside (more slots = more money grab). There are already enough slots that design space shouldn’t be an issue for decades, as long as token creep is kept in check.


I think the challenge that True Dungeon has is that a lot of the bigger token buyers already have "best in class" tokens in pretty much all slots. In order to have tokens from a new set appeal to those buyers, the tokens need to either be more desirable than the existing "best in slot" tokens, or exist in a new slot where there aren't yet any "best in slot" tokens.

Both options have downsides also, I think. If people have their "best in slot" tokens obsoleted too often, it can be pretty discouraging. And, like you said, if there are too many possible slots it can be kind of overwhelming to newer players - not to mention back-breaking for those of us carrying all the tokens for the whole group.

I think that's why there is the recent emphasis on slot expanders. It's kind of like creating a new slot - if someone has 7 "best in slot" charms, but now can have 9 charms, that's two new slots for them to fill. That was a main emphasis behind the Charm of Avarice (other than giving people a chance for a Horn of Plenty equivalent), it freed up several slots for people to then start buying "best in class" tokens for.

Come to think of it - maybe the two concepts can be combined. There could be a brand new slot, but it starts out at "zero" token slots, and you can only outfit anything in that slot by buying slot expander tokens (even if those slot expander tokens were slotless themselves). Like, maybe, Tattoos were a new slot, but you couldn't equip a Tattoo token unless you get a Tattoo Ink token. Just thinking out loud...

I guess Runestone Fitting Base is already an example of this - it's a slotless token that essentially creates a slot (an additional runestone). Maybe more URs like that could be created. Like, a slotless double-hoop earring that let you equip an additional Earring (and maybe you could equip up to two slotless double-hoop earrings, one per ear).


I think TD should consider a slot above Legendary. Maybe a swirly purple "Mythical" Token that takes a few Legendaries, some Relic's, and maybe some UR's to make. You wouldn't have to make it much more powerful then existing Legendaries, maybe a +7 for the sword for instance, up the damage of course, give it a power, etc. Upside - Players continue to have another "level" of Token to shoot for with minimal power creep being added to the game, and more cash for TD as the big spender's chase them.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." - Albert Einstein

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New Slot Thought 2 months 2 days ago #66

Marcques Domask wrote: Could this lead to a total party kill in the coaching room when someone tries to stag bags of holding inside bags of holding? ;)


Nesting bags of holding is perfectly safe. In theory, if you have enough bags, you could fill several bags with dirt, then fill another bag with bags of dirt, then fill another bag with bags of bags of dirt, and so on until eventually you walk off with literally the entire planet in your pocket.

It's only when you try to mix bags of holding with portable holes that things get... messy.

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New Slot Thought 2 months 2 days ago #67

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote: I think It’s actually ok to get to a point where the few “has BIS everywhere” buyers don’t have much to buy out of the standard set. It looks like there will always be multi year UR transmutes, and we don’t have legendary tokens in every slot yet (or even relics) so those players will have stuff to still get. This is triple true if keeping the big buyer means driving away dozens of new players. Eventually the Current BIS big spenders will age out / quit / Whatever, so it’s definitely best to keep the amount of new blood coming in higher than old blood going out.


Hopefully there's a way to have interesting tokens for "best in slot" players to buy without driving away new players. :)

Hopefully Arcanum set, relic and Legendary eye, ioun Stone, hand, wrist, ear, charm, shirt, pants,greaves, bead, boots, figurine can keep things interesting. Worst case, there are slots that only have 1 relic and legendary that could get another, such as belt, head, and offhand.


I'll support adding multiple relic/legendary sets to slots with only one existing option.

Belt - something spell based or something defensive based to balance out the STR based existing path
Ring - something physical or damage based to balance out the spell and defensive paths
Offhand - something non shield based to give a path option to non shield users


I'm curious to see what options could come up for the eyes slot. Seems a lot of interesting potential there...

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New Slot Thought 2 months 2 days ago #68

Rob F wrote: I think TD should consider a slot above Legendary. Maybe a swirly purple "Mythical" Token that takes a few Legendaries, some Relic's, and maybe some UR's to make. You wouldn't have to make it much more powerful then existing Legendaries, maybe a +7 for the sword for instance, up the damage of course, give it a power, etc. Upside - Players continue to have another "level" of Token to shoot for with minimal power creep being added to the game, and more cash for TD as the big spender's chase them.


I would prefer to see existing slots filled out more before adding another tier of rarity. We've already semi forced the creation of another difficulty above Nightmare due to power creep. More utility token designs would be good, new transmute lines that create a new BIS item for damage builds but in a different way that existing design would be great. (a legendary ranged weapon that scales off Dex mod and ranged damage that's comperable to existing STR weapons - also opens up +Dex legendary transmutes to allow for another BIS path that doesn't power creep existing builds)

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New Slot Thought 1 month 4 weeks ago #69

Marcques Domask wrote: Could this lead to a total party kill in the coaching room when someone tries to stag bags of holding inside bags of holding? ;)


TPK in the coaching room? As a coach, I am intrigued. I only ever gave a point of damage to the thief player when he couldn't get the lanyard bundle untied.
We have met the enemy and they are ours:Two ships, two brigs, one schooner and one sloop
September 10, 1813

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New Slot Thought 1 month 4 weeks ago #70

raptorov wrote:

Marcques Domask wrote: Could this lead to a total party kill in the coaching room when someone tries to stag bags of holding inside bags of holding? ;)


TPK in the coaching room? As a coach, I am intrigued. I only ever gave a point of damage to the thief player when he couldn't get the lanyard bundle untied.


How many starting HPs would a fourth level Elf Wizard equipped with Artificer’s Gloves, Fiendish Charm, Kilt of Barrelbane, and Shirt of the Hare have? Your starting Con is now a 4 or the equivalent of instead of +1 per level you have a -3 per level. You started with 15 HPs and now you have just 3 or 4 if you do a minimum of 1 HP per level.

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New Slot Thought 1 month 4 weeks ago #71

edwin wrote:

raptorov wrote:

Marcques Domask wrote: Could this lead to a total party kill in the coaching room when someone tries to stag bags of holding inside bags of holding? ;)


TPK in the coaching room? As a coach, I am intrigued. I only ever gave a point of damage to the thief player when he couldn't get the lanyard bundle untied.


How many starting HPs would a fourth level Elf Wizard equipped with Artificer’s Gloves, Fiendish Charm, Kilt of Barrelbane, and Shirt of the Hare have? Your starting Con is now a 4 or the equivalent of instead of +1 per level you have a -3 per level. You started with 15 HPs and now you have just 3 or 4 if you do a minimum of 1 HP per level.


According to the app you would have -1 hp. You just need to make sure you don't equip anything that gets you to 5th level or you do end up on the plus side.

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New Slot Thought 1 month 4 weeks ago #72

I didn't realize you could roll up a "Hopeless Character" in True Dungeon. I though that was only for Gamma World.
We have met the enemy and they are ours:Two ships, two brigs, one schooner and one sloop
September 10, 1813

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