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TOPIC: 2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR

2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR 9 months 3 weeks ago #97

Updated recipes can be found at the end of the QTR 2020.06 Beta .
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3* Enhanced
Lenses of the Owl ©
· 50 GP Silver Mirror
· 200 GP

Ring of Fervor ©
· 1× 100 GP Silver [Ruby or Sapphire] Skull
· 2× Philosopher’s Stone
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
· any 2020 Monster Trophy
· Blight Bud
· Fiend Talon
· Lamia Scale
· Slayer Tentacle
· Stalker Blood
· Swamp Hag Venom

4* Exalted
Charm of Timely Aid ª
· Charm of Lamentation
· 2× Darkwood Plank
· 1× Dwarven Steel
· 1× Minotaur Hide
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
· 1,000 GP Gold bar
· Aragonite
· Blight Bud
· Fiend Talon
· Lamia Scale
· Slayer Tentacle
· Stalker Blood
· Swamp Hag Venom

Gem of Last Hope ª
Potion [Death’s Door or Revival Root]
Earcuff of Vitality (any year)
• 10× Darkwood Plank
• 10× Philosopher’s Stone
• 1,000 GP
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
o Blight Bud
o Fiend Talon
o Lamia Scale
o Slayer Tentacle
o Stalker Blood
o Swamp Hag Venom

Ring of Stamina ª
· Ring of Fortitude (any year)
· 7× Darkwood Plank
· 2× Philosopher’s Stone
· 200 GP
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
· Blight Bud
· Fiend Talon
· Lamia Scale
· Slayer Tentacle
· Stalker Blood
· Swamp Hag Venom

Relic:
+3 Holy Avenger «
· +2 Holy Avenger
• 10× Alchemist’s Ink
• 10× Alchemist’s Parchment
• 1× Aragonite
• 20× Darkwood Plank
• 15× Dwarven Steel
• 1× Elven Bismuth
• 2× Enchanter’s Munition
• 1× Golden Fleece
• 15× Minotaur Hide
• 20× Mystic Silk
• 1× Oil of Enchantment
• 10× Philosopher’s Stone
• 5,000 GP in Reserve Bars

Medallion of Furious Attack «
· Bracers of Reckless Fury
10× Alchemist’s Ink
• 5× Alchemist’s Parchment
• 1× Aragonite
• 20× Darkwood Plank
• 20× Dwarven Steel
• 2× Elven Bismuth
• 1× Enchanter’s Munition
• 1× Golden Fleece
• 15× Minotaur Hide
• 20× Mystic Silk
• 1× Oil of Enchantment
• 20× Philosopher’s Stone
• 5,000 GP in Reserve Bars

Necklace of the Spirit Drake «
· Ring of the Drake
• 10× Alchemist’s Ink
• 10× Alchemist’s Parchment
• 1× Aragonite
• 20× Darkwood Plank
• 20× Dwarven Steel
• 1× Elven Bismuth
• 1× Enchanter’s Munition
• 1× Golden Fleece
• 10× Minotaur Hide
• 20× Mystic Silk
• 1× Oil of Enchantment
• 10× Philosopher’s Stone
• 5,000 GP in Reserve Bars

Pendant of the Yew «
· Cloak of the Elm
• 15× Alchemist’s Ink
• 15× Alchemist’s Parchment
• 2× Aragonite
• 20× Darkwood Plank
• 15× Dwarven Steel
• 1× Elven Bismuth
• 1× Enchanter’s Munition
• 1× Golden Fleece
• 10× Minotaur Hide
• 20× Mystic Silk
• 1× Oil of Enchantment
• 12× Philosopher’s Stone
• 5,000 GP in Reserve Bars

Legendary
Ava’s +5 Holy Avenger
· +3 Holy Avenger
· +2 Flaming Blade
· Charm of Glory
10× Alchemist’s Ink
• 15× Alchemist’s Parchment
• 2× Aragonite
• 25× Darkwood Plank
• 20× Dwarven Steel
• 2× Elven Bismuth
• 3× Enchanter’s Munition
• 2× Golden Fleece
• 20× Minotaur Hide
• 20× Mystic Silk
• 1× Oil of Enchantment
• 20× Philosopher’s Stone
· 25,000 GP Eldritch Bar
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
o Wish Ring
o 15,000 GP in Reserve Bars

Benrow’s Elder Drake Necklace
· Necklace of the Spirit Drake
· Shirt of the Oaf
· Cook’s Hat
• 15× Alchemist’s Ink
• 15× Alchemist’s Parchment
• 2× Aragonite
• 25× Darkwood Plank
• 15× Dwarven Steel
• 3× Elven Bismuth
• 3× Enchanter’s Munition
• 2× Golden Fleece
• 20× Minotaur Hide
• 25× Mystic Silk
• 1× Oil of Enchantment
• 20× Philosopher’s Stone
· 25,000 GP Eldritch Bar
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
o Wish Ring
o 15,000 GP in Reserve Bars

Bog’s Medallion of Berserking
· Medallion of Furious Attack
· Arcane Belt
· Ioun Stone Banshee Prism
• 10× Alchemist’s Ink
• 10× Alchemist’s Parchment
• 2× Aragonite
• 25× Darkwood Plank
• 20× Dwarven Steel
• 3× Elven Bismuth
• 3× Enchanter’s Munition
• 2× Golden Fleece
• 15× Minotaur Hide
• 30× Mystic Silk
• 1× Oil of Enchantment
• 30× Philosopher’s Stone
· 25,000 GP Eldritch Bar
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
o Wish Ring
o 15,000 GP in Reserve Bars

Ralson’s Pendant of the Elder Yew
· Pendant of the Yew
· +1 Mighty Short Bow
· Lenses of Agility
• 15× Alchemist’s Ink
• 15× Alchemist’s Parchment
• 2× Aragonite
• 25× Darkwood Plank
• 20× Dwarven Steel
• 2× Elven Bismuth
• 3× Enchanter’s Munition
• 2× Golden Fleece
• 25× Minotaur Hide
• 25× Mystic Silk
• 1× Oil of Enchantment
• 20× Philosopher’s Stone
· 25,000 GP Eldritch Bar
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
o Wish Ring
o 15,000 GP in Reserve Bars

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Last edit: by Endgame.

2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR 9 months 3 weeks ago #98

kurtreznor wrote:
As to specific goods.
Munitions at 10+ was insane. It could go up to 5ish, but i do like the idea of only needing 2 or 3, which could bottom out the price on ammo and convince players to USE ammo in the dungeon.
MH and DS, please dont raise these to the high level of the silk, plank, and stone. They only come from commons, and are thus the ONLY trade goods you will never get from treasure draws.

Fleece...we need a better solution. I think requiring 1 fleece for every relic is too much, but without it the market gets flooded. There needs to be another sink for fleece/monster bits that isnt the relics. 2019 seemed to hit the mark just right. I know we all paniced at first, but i think the final numbers worked out...but a big part of that was because we had spare fleece from previous years. If supply and requirements stay at 2019 levels, im screwed.


I think what you’re saying, with which I totally agree, is that TPTB should take a longer term view around Fleece! There are currently SO many recipes requiring large numbers of MB that over the next couple of years MB will be used up, Bead, Belt, etc.
I don’t think each recipe needs the Fleece requirement.
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2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR 9 months 3 weeks ago #99

As someone who has already crafted Iktomi's, I think it's a good thing for all of the class Relics and Legendary tokens to have the same GF requirements.

I realize there are other things for MBs to craft this year, but folks have the option of crafting less Beads. I know a lot of folks mentioned planning to craft a ton of those.
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Last edit: by Arnold.

2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR 9 months 3 weeks ago #100

  • jedibcg
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For those playing along at home current proposed changes vs last version on average
1 less Aragonite
8.75 more planks
5 more steel
1.25 less bismuth
.5 less munitions
2.5 more silk
1.75 more stone

Difference from 2018-2019 relics
5.45 more ink
3.8 more parchment
.25 more aragonite
7.6 more planks
9.85 more steel
.5 more bismuth
1.55 more munitions
.4 more fleece
8.9 more hide
10.8 more silk
1.6 more stones

I think steel is still too high because you aren't getting 20 from a 2k order on average. And you cannot get them from treasure boxes. But I understand if I might be in the minority on this. I don't know that munitions needed to drop a second time. I don't think anyone complained about where they were last version. In fact some suggested they go up a bit. 3 to 5? Just a guess.

I think I remember Druegar (but I could be remembering incorrectly) saying at some point that he wanted to make most of the trade items divisible by 5 to make it easier for the person transmuting, I think that is why most of the numbers are such. It is also likely why the random chase rares and uncommons are gone. I understand this choice, but I do think having certain rare and uncommons being needed added to the 'fun' of having to track them down. Not saying I want them back because I don't think my pleasure is > than the pain of having to count and separate them is worth it.


docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WyCJ1oGUyTVz-inZWZQJt7n1sSLUlUdTdhNoRU3JKDM/edit#gid=0
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Last edit: by jedibcg.

2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR 9 months 3 weeks ago #101

Prefer needing more EMs and less DS and MH for the legendaries.

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2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR 9 months 3 weeks ago #102

kurtreznor wrote: I dont like any of the proposed recipe iterations, for various reasons already mentioned, plus more.

I think the recipes can/should have much bigger differences, not just slight tweaks to the numbers. Rather than each relic having plank, silk, and stone at some variation of 10, 15, and 20; make them wildly different but total up to the same. One relic could be 40 silk, but only 5 stone and plank; another is 50 plank; another is 30... you get the idea.
And apply that principle to other trade goods as well. Encourage trading to get what you need rather than buying the items you are short on. And those of us wanting one of every relic will need the full balance from a large order.

As to specific goods.
Munitions at 10+ was insane. It could go up to 5ish, but i do like the idea of only needing 2 or 3, which could bottom out the price on ammo and convince players to USE ammo in the dungeon.
MH and DS, please dont raise these to the high level of the silk, plank, and stone. They only come from commons, and are thus the ONLY trade goods you will never get from treasure draws.

Plank, stone, and silk; needing more is fine. Maybe do small increases on these each year until things find a balance?

Fleece...we need a better solution. I think requiring 1 fleece for every relic is too much, but without it the market gets flooded. There needs to be another sink for fleece/monster bits that isnt the relics. 2019 seemed to hit the mark just right. I know we all paniced at first, but i think the final numbers worked out...but a big part of that was because we had spare fleece from previous years. If supply and requirements stay at 2019 levels, im screwed.

+1 to all of this.

Today's revision on the relics helps, but I agree with the above comment that the MH and DS could really use a reduction still. Maybe half DS and MH and don't change anything else? The recipes still seem really, really expensive compared to 2018 and 2019. Could you even build 1 relic out of a 2K order?

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2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR 9 months 3 weeks ago #103

Endgame wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: I dont like any of the proposed recipe iterations, for various reasons already mentioned, plus more.

I think the recipes can/should have much bigger differences, not just slight tweaks to the numbers. Rather than each relic having plank, silk, and stone at some variation of 10, 15, and 20; make them wildly different but total up to the same. One relic could be 40 silk, but only 5 stone and plank; another is 50 plank; another is 30... you get the idea.
And apply that principle to other trade goods as well. Encourage trading to get what you need rather than buying the items you are short on. And those of us wanting one of every relic will need the full balance from a large order.

As to specific goods.
Munitions at 10+ was insane. It could go up to 5ish, but i do like the idea of only needing 2 or 3, which could bottom out the price on ammo and convince players to USE ammo in the dungeon.
MH and DS, please dont raise these to the high level of the silk, plank, and stone. They only come from commons, and are thus the ONLY trade goods you will never get from treasure draws.

Plank, stone, and silk; needing more is fine. Maybe do small increases on these each year until things find a balance?

Fleece...we need a better solution. I think requiring 1 fleece for every relic is too much, but without it the market gets flooded. There needs to be another sink for fleece/monster bits that isnt the relics. 2019 seemed to hit the mark just right. I know we all paniced at first, but i think the final numbers worked out...but a big part of that was because we had spare fleece from previous years. If supply and requirements stay at 2019 levels, im screwed.

+1 to all of this.

Today's revision on the relics helps, but I agree with the above comment that the MH and DS could really use a reduction still. Maybe half DS and MH and don't change anything else? The recipes still seem really, really expensive compared to 2018 and 2019. Could you even build 1 relic out of a 2K order?


If you are just looking for 1 relic it is far cheaper just to buy it on the secondary market.

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2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR 9 months 3 weeks ago #104

jedibcg wrote: I think I remember Druegar (but I could be remembering incorrectly) saying at some point that he wanted to make most of the trade items divisible by 5

I don't recall* posting that, but I like the idea.

*I'm not saying I didn't post that, I'm just saying that I don't remember posting it.
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections/suggestions in this thread .
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2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR 9 months 3 weeks ago #105

edwin wrote:

Endgame wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: I dont like any of the proposed recipe iterations, for various reasons already mentioned, plus more.

I think the recipes can/should have much bigger differences, not just slight tweaks to the numbers. Rather than each relic having plank, silk, and stone at some variation of 10, 15, and 20; make them wildly different but total up to the same. One relic could be 40 silk, but only 5 stone and plank; another is 50 plank; another is 30... you get the idea.
And apply that principle to other trade goods as well. Encourage trading to get what you need rather than buying the items you are short on. And those of us wanting one of every relic will need the full balance from a large order.

As to specific goods.
Munitions at 10+ was insane. It could go up to 5ish, but i do like the idea of only needing 2 or 3, which could bottom out the price on ammo and convince players to USE ammo in the dungeon.
MH and DS, please dont raise these to the high level of the silk, plank, and stone. They only come from commons, and are thus the ONLY trade goods you will never get from treasure draws.

Plank, stone, and silk; needing more is fine. Maybe do small increases on these each year until things find a balance?

Fleece...we need a better solution. I think requiring 1 fleece for every relic is too much, but without it the market gets flooded. There needs to be another sink for fleece/monster bits that isnt the relics. 2019 seemed to hit the mark just right. I know we all paniced at first, but i think the final numbers worked out...but a big part of that was because we had spare fleece from previous years. If supply and requirements stay at 2019 levels, im screwed.

+1 to all of this.

Today's revision on the relics helps, but I agree with the above comment that the MH and DS could really use a reduction still. Maybe half DS and MH and don't change anything else? The recipes still seem really, really expensive compared to 2018 and 2019. Could you even build 1 relic out of a 2K order?


If you are just looking for 1 relic it is far cheaper just to buy it on the secondary market.

It was roughly equal to build a lute of free fury last year vs buy the components, however I was able to buy the GF for $40 just after Gen Con 2018.

I'm in the position now of having some gold on hand and some trade goods which would reduce my cost, but these 2020 recipes are just so much more expensive than 2019 it more than covers what I have on hand.

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2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR 9 months 3 weeks ago #106

Endgame wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: I dont like any of the proposed recipe iterations, for various reasons already mentioned, plus more.

I think the recipes can/should have much bigger differences, not just slight tweaks to the numbers. Rather than each relic having plank, silk, and stone at some variation of 10, 15, and 20; make them wildly different but total up to the same. One relic could be 40 silk, but only 5 stone and plank; another is 50 plank; another is 30... you get the idea.
And apply that principle to other trade goods as well. Encourage trading to get what you need rather than buying the items you are short on. And those of us wanting one of every relic will need the full balance from a large order.

As to specific goods.
Munitions at 10+ was insane. It could go up to 5ish, but i do like the idea of only needing 2 or 3, which could bottom out the price on ammo and convince players to USE ammo in the dungeon.
MH and DS, please dont raise these to the high level of the silk, plank, and stone. They only come from commons, and are thus the ONLY trade goods you will never get from treasure draws.

Plank, stone, and silk; needing more is fine. Maybe do small increases on these each year until things find a balance?

Fleece...we need a better solution. I think requiring 1 fleece for every relic is too much, but without it the market gets flooded. There needs to be another sink for fleece/monster bits that isnt the relics. 2019 seemed to hit the mark just right. I know we all paniced at first, but i think the final numbers worked out...but a big part of that was because we had spare fleece from previous years. If supply and requirements stay at 2019 levels, im screwed.

+1 to all of this.

Today's revision on the relics helps, but I agree with the above comment that the MH and DS could really use a reduction still. Maybe half DS and MH and don't change anything else? The recipes still seem really, really expensive compared to 2018 and 2019. Could you even build 1 relic out of a 2K order?


Based on this post here , a 2K order would be short ~4 Minotaur Hide on +3 Holy Avenger. It would be short ~4 Minotaur Hide and 3-4 Dwarven Steel on Medallion of Furious attack,. It would be short 3-4 Dwarven steel on Necklace of the Spirit Drake. Pendant of the Yew looks like it would be short ~4 Alchemist's Ink and Alchemist's parchment. Those are the limiting materials for those recipes, in all cases you would end up with excess of other materials. So a 2K order seems very close (in terms of trade goods)

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2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR 9 months 3 weeks ago #107

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edwin wrote: If you are just looking for 1 relic it is far cheaper just to buy it on the secondary market.


True but I doubt that is what he is doing. Many of us like to support TD by buying from TD. We purchase at a certain level (whatever it may be), if we end up with extra tokens we transmute them. If you have been buying at a level that allows you to make a relic and now are not able to because the recipe is more expensive than that level it than and being told that you have to order more (maybe another 1k worth) or go to the second market can leave a sour taste in ones mouth.

That said I am not saying that there should not be increase. Just TD should have an idea on about what it takes to be able to make a relic from purchase orders alone for the past two years. If the increase is such that it would require another 1k or more to make a relic then maybe there needs more balancing. Some items have been too scare in the ingredients needed in the past and a slight adjust to compensate probably is needed (see munitions).
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2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR 9 months 3 weeks ago #108

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Druegar wrote:

jedibcg wrote: I think I remember Druegar (but I could be remembering incorrectly) saying at some point that he wanted to make most of the trade items divisible by 5

I don't recall* posting that, but I like the idea.

*I'm not saying I didn't post that, I'm just saying that I don't remember posting it.


Just to be clear I am not saying I said you posted it. I think you actually said it at some point when we talking about tokens. To be further clear I think it was at WYC. Again I could be very wrong about that. It could be someone else said it and I am remembering that you said because someone suggested that you would like the idea.
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