TOPIC: 2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR

Endgame wrote: Oof. I think my group is out of the race for relics if this is going to be the prices.

The change on the Necklace of the spirit drake:

+1 Argonite
-10 Plank
-10 Steel
+2 Bismuth
-8 Munitions
+1 Fleece

Previous Auction price: 364.76 + UR
New Auction Price: 389.14 + 1 fleece ($70?) + UR

Not sure why prices got more expensive after the update. Maybe people not posting on the forums thought relics were too cheap or something.

If the fleece wasn’t tacked on I think it would be okay. 10 steel is worth an aragonite, maybe more than one. 18 other goods can be worth the 2x EB. Not sure why a $60+ fleece was added. Didn’t take away and cost for it...

Matt wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Anyone care to make a comparison for us simpletons?

See above. I did average difference and total difference. I did not do individual differences.

Thanks!

I'm in agreement that I'm happy with less steel and munitions, honestly indifferent on fleece (I know I'm probably in the minority here), and I know that I'm still going to have a lot of plank and silk left over.

I'm glad fleece is in and lowering of the lesser trade goods. As someone who runs a lot but doesn't bulk buy boosters it's relatively easier for me to get the higher order trade goods.

Still confused as to why Ring of Fervor takes any 2019/2020 bit and Ring of Stamina only 2019 bits. I would like to see the 3/4 star transmutes use a 2 year window of bits if needed as to make it easier for folks to dip their toe into transmuting and use stuff they acquired from a previous year. Encourage use of the 'loose' bits.

Late to the conversation. But I don’t like how the relic recipes were increased to include more aragonite, elven bismuth, oil of enhancement and Golden Fleece.

I liked the original relic recipes better except the enchanter’s munitions needed to be lowered greatly.

Is there an over supply of Argonite / Bismuth / etc? Why are we looking at such dramatically higher prices this year? Here is what I was expecting transmute wise, based on the Lute of Free Fury recipe - + 10 Plank, + 10 Silk, + 10 Stone, +2 steel. which yields a breakdown like this:

6 Alchemeist Ink
5 Alchemists Parchment
1 Argonite
30 Darkwood Plank
4 Dwarven Steel
1 Elven Bismuth
1 Enchanters Munition
1 Golden Flece
3 Minotaur Hide
20 Mystic Silk
1 Oil of Enchantment
20 Philosphers Stone
5000 Gold

Bog’s Medallion of Berserking

MS should probally be 25 instead of 35 to bring in line with other Relics

I still think the components for the Gem of Last Hope should be lowered a bit.

Great, I spend the morning pillaging my supply of ammo tokens and then EM drops to more reasonable levels.

3* Enhanced
Lenses of the Owl ©
· 50 GP Silver Mirror
· 200 GP

Ring of Fervor ©
· 1× 100 GP Silver [Ruby or Sapphire] Skull
· 2× Philosopher’s Stone
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
· any 2020 Monster Trophy
· Blight Bud
· Fiend Talon
· Lamia Scale
· Slayer Tentacle
· Stalker Blood
· Swamp Hag Venom

Ring of Jealous Fervor?

Wouldn't it be simpler to say "any 2019 Monster Trophy", line break, "any 2020 Monster Trophy"?

4* Exalted
Charm of Timely Aid ª
· Charm of Lamentation
· 2× Darkwood Plank
· 1× Dwarven Steel
· 1× Minotaur Hide
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
· 1,000 GP Gold bar
· Aragonite
· Blight Bud
· Fiend Talon
· Lamia Scale
· Slayer Tentacle
· Stalker Blood
· Swamp Hag Venom

Any 2019 Monster Trophy would work as well. This appears to be suggesting that 2019 MB are too high in value. Why Aragonite versus Elven Bismuth? Why not 700gp instead of 1000?

Gem of Last Hope ª
· Potion [Death’s Door or Revival Root]
· Earcuff of Vitality (any year)
· 10× Darkwood Plank
· 10× Philosopher’s Stone
· 1,000 GP
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
o Blight Bud
o Fiend Talon
o Lamia Scale
o Slayer Tentacle
o Stalker Blood
o Swamp Hag Venom

Ditto

Maybe not here, but where's the outlet for soaking up Mystic Silk at lower rarity levels? Can always thematicize it by saying the gem is hung on a cloth or put into a silk-lined box or handle with special gloves of gem polishing.

Ring of Stamina ª
· Ring of Fortitude (any year)
· 7× Darkwood Plank
· 2× Philosopher’s Stone
· 200 GP
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
· Blight Bud
· Fiend Talon
· Lamia Scale
· Slayer Tentacle
· Stalker Blood
· Swamp Hag Venom

Ditto

Rings would suggest Philosopher's Stones more than Planks as per the other ring recipe. But, equal numbers of both would also make somewhat more sense than more DP.

Relic:

+3 Holy Avenger «
· +2 Holy Avenger
· 10× Alchemist’s Ink
· 10× Alchemist’s Parchment
· 2× Aragonite
· 10× Darkwood Plank
· 15× Dwarven Steel
· 2× Elven Bismuth
· 2× Enchanter’s Munition
· 1× Golden Fleece
· 15× Minotaur Hide
· 10× Mystic Silk
· 1× Oil of Enchantment
· 10× Philosopher’s Stone
· 5,000 GP in Reserve Bars

See no particular reason to not allow for the older UR.

Generally, having the recipes for the relics all look rather similar isn't appealing. Means the players are largely chasing same goods as opposed to incentivizing trading.

For example, Holy Avenger could be:
UR "Holy" sword
4x AI
1x AP
2x Aragonite
8x DP
15x DS
1x EB
5x EM
1x GF
7x MH --sheath
3x MS
2x OE
10x PS
4000gp

Furious Attack
Bracers of Reckless Fury
1x AI
1x AP
2x Aragonite
15x DP --practice crushing boards with bracers first
6x DS
2x EB
4x EM
1x GF
2x MH
8x MS
1x OE
15x PS
5000gp

Spirit Drake can run more AI/AP, less Aragonite/Bismuth, keep the high MS count. Yew can have like 30x DP with 10x EM (rangers and ammo, though, that's an argument for having the lowest EM, instead).

For the legendaries, would say that generally AI/AP are consistently much higher requirements than I expect. These are relatively scarce, where EM, MH are two common trade items that recipes don't use much of, while DS tends to swing wildly by recipe. Also, the GF requirements may be consistent with recent history, but those higher GF requirements were when MB were ubiquitous. Is the plan for 2020 to be more like 2017 or more like 2019? If the latter, GF should be coming back down.

It comes across like the decisions are overreacting to an immediate situation. Incremental rebalancing averages to take less AI/AP and more DP/EM/MH/MS/PS would allow time to see if the rebalancing actually achieves anything. Of course, overreacting with Planks, where I don't even bother converting a lot of uncommons and rares into them, doesn't bother me. Can start requiring 50x DP for a legendary and I don't know how much it would matter given how few legendaries get made.

Medallion of Furious Attack «
· Bracers of Reckless Fury
· 10× Alchemist’s Ink
· 5× Alchemist’s Parchment
· 2× Aragonite
· 15× Darkwood Plank
· 10× Dwarven Steel
· 3× Elven Bismuth
· 2× Enchanter’s Munition
· 1× Golden Fleece
· 15× Minotaur Hide
· 20× Mystic Silk
· 1× Oil of Enchantment
· 15× Philosopher’s Stone
· 5,000 GP in Reserve Bars

Necklace of the Spirit Drake «
· Ring of the Drake
· 10× Alchemist’s Ink
· 10× Alchemist’s Parchment
· 2× Aragonite
· 10× Darkwood Plank
· 10× Dwarven Steel
· 3× Elven Bismuth
· 2× Enchanter’s Munition
· 1× Golden Fleece
· 10× Minotaur Hide
· 20× Mystic Silk
· 1× Oil of Enchantment
· 10× Philosopher’s Stone
· 5,000 GP in Reserve Bars

Pendant of the Yew «
· Cloak of the Elm
· 15× Alchemist’s Ink
· 15× Alchemist’s Parchment
· 3× Aragonite
· 10× Darkwood Plank
· 10× Dwarven Steel
· 3× Elven Bismuth
· 2× Enchanter’s Munition
· 1× Golden Fleece
· 10× Minotaur Hide
· 20× Mystic Silk
· 1× Oil of Enchantment
· 10× Philosopher’s Stone
· 5,000 GP in Reserve Bars

Legendary

Ava’s +5 Holy Avenger
· +3 Holy Avenger
· +2 Flaming Blade
· Charm of Glory
· 10× Alchemist’s Ink
· 15× Alchemist’s Parchment
· 3× Aragonite
· 20× Darkwood Plank
· 15× Dwarven Steel
· 3× Elven Bismuth
· 3× Enchanter’s Munition
· 2× Golden Fleece
· 20× Minotaur Hide
· 20× Mystic Silk
· 1× Oil of Enchantment
· 10× Philosopher’s Stone
· 25,000 GP Eldritch Bar
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
o Wish Ring
o 15,000 GP in Reserve Bars

Benrow’s Elder Drake Necklace
· Necklace of the Spirit Drake
· Shirt of the Oaf
· Cook’s Hat
· 15× Alchemist’s Ink
· 15× Alchemist’s Parchment
· 2× Aragonite
· 20× Darkwood Plank
· 15× Dwarven Steel
· 5× Elven Bismuth
· 3× Enchanter’s Munition
· 2× Golden Fleece
· 20× Minotaur Hide
· 22× Mystic Silk
· 1× Oil of Enchantment
· 15× Philosopher’s Stone
· 25,000 GP Eldritch Bar
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
o Wish Ring
o 15,000 GP in Reserve Bars

Bog’s Medallion of Berserking
· Medallion of Furious Attack
· Arcane Belt
· Ioun Stone Banshee Prism
· 10× Alchemist’s Ink
· 10× Alchemist’s Parchment
· 2× Aragonite
· 20× Darkwood Plank
· 15× Dwarven Steel
· 4× Elven Bismuth
· 3× Enchanter’s Munition
· 2× Golden Fleece
· 15× Minotaur Hide
· 35× Mystic Silk
· 1× Oil of Enchantment
· 25× Philosopher’s Stone
· 25,000 GP Eldritch Bar
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
o Wish Ring
o 15,000 GP in Reserve Bars

Ralson’s Pendant of the Elder Yew
· Pendant of the Yew
· +1 Mighty Short Bow
· Lenses of Agility
· 15× Alchemist’s Ink
· 15× Alchemist’s Parchment
· 2× Aragonite
· 20× Darkwood Plank
· 15× Dwarven Steel
· 3× Elven Bismuth
· 3× Enchanter’s Munition
· 2× Golden Fleece
· 25× Minotaur Hide
· 25× Mystic Silk
· 1× Oil of Enchantment
· 15× Philosopher’s Stone
· 25,000 GP Eldritch Bar
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
o Wish Ring
o 15,000 GP in Reserve Bars[/quote]

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: Trade goods have fluxed over the years. You can’t compare 2013 to today. In 2013 MS was 15-20$ each. The only way you can run coat of X relic or legendary is if you have the costs for
Those years.

You also can’t compare those years because in 2013 TD was only at GenCon.

Flik wrote:

Endgame wrote: Oof. I think my group is out of the race for relics if this is going to be the prices.

The change on the Necklace of the spirit drake:

+1 Argonite
-10 Plank
-10 Steel
+2 Bismuth
-8 Munitions
+1 Fleece

Previous Auction price: 364.76 + UR
New Auction Price: 389.14 + 1 fleece ($70?) + UR

Not sure why prices got more expensive after the update. Maybe people not posting on the forums thought relics were too cheap or something.

If the fleece wasn’t tacked on I think it would be okay. 10 steel is worth an aragonite, maybe more than one. 18 other goods can be worth the 2x EB. Not sure why a $60+ fleece was added. Didn’t take away and cost for it...

Prices won't get more expensive if the cost of the trade goods keep falling. IMO the new recipes are fine, except I think Plank still needs to go up, and Stone/Silk. I also like the 2 Golden Fleece, helps reward those who play more then just buy Tokens.

Thanks for dropping the EM.

I join the chorus of people who were fine with increased DS, DP, MH, MS, PS (or maybe a subset of those). Maybe split the difference between this version and the prior version on them?

It's really sad to see auctions running and trade tokens not cracking $1.50 or whatever - I think things are more healthy when trade tokens are in the 2.50 - 5 range.

Rob F wrote:

Flik wrote:

Endgame wrote: Oof. I think my group is out of the race for relics if this is going to be the prices.

The change on the Necklace of the spirit drake:

+1 Argonite
-10 Plank
-10 Steel
+2 Bismuth
-8 Munitions
+1 Fleece

Previous Auction price: 364.76 + UR
New Auction Price: 389.14 + 1 fleece ($70?) + UR

Not sure why prices got more expensive after the update. Maybe people not posting on the forums thought relics were too cheap or something.

If the fleece wasn’t tacked on I think it would be okay. 10 steel is worth an aragonite, maybe more than one. 18 other goods can be worth the 2x EB. Not sure why a $60+ fleece was added. Didn’t take away and cost for it...

Prices won't get more expensive if the cost of the trade goods keep falling. IMO the new recipes are fine, except I think Plank still needs to go up, and Stone/Silk. I also like the 2 Golden Fleece, helps reward those who play more then just buy Tokens.

How many runs does it take to get a fleece?

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Flik wrote:

Endgame wrote: Oof. I think my group is out of the race for relics if this is going to be the prices.

The change on the Necklace of the spirit drake:

+1 Argonite
-10 Plank
-10 Steel
+2 Bismuth
-8 Munitions
+1 Fleece

Previous Auction price: 364.76 + UR
New Auction Price: 389.14 + 1 fleece ($70?) + UR

Not sure why prices got more expensive after the update. Maybe people not posting on the forums thought relics were too cheap or something.

If the fleece wasn’t tacked on I think it would be okay. 10 steel is worth an aragonite, maybe more than one. 18 other goods can be worth the 2x EB. Not sure why a $60+ fleece was added. Didn’t take away and cost for it...

Prices won't get more expensive if the cost of the trade goods keep falling. IMO the new recipes are fine, except I think Plank still needs to go up, and Stone/Silk. I also like the 2 Golden Fleece, helps reward those who play more then just buy Tokens.

How many runs does it take to get a fleece?

More than it used to. In recent years the percentage of monster bits drawn was around 20%. This year it’s more like 10%

With the current percentage, 5 runs on average. Assuming COA and two nuggets.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Thanks for dropping the EM.

I join the chorus of people who were fine with increased DS, DP, MH, MS, PS (or maybe a subset of those). Maybe split the difference between this version and the prior version on them?

It's really sad to see auctions running and trade tokens not cracking $1.50 or whatever - I think things are more healthy when trade tokens are in the 2.50 - 5 range.

One way to raise the prices could be to run fewer auctions... I think pyp is driving the auction sales, and trade goods are just along for the ride