TOPIC: 2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR

Steven wrote: The main issue I have with quantity of trade good out there being the driving force for recipes is how many people are actually the cause of the trade good surplus?
Non stop auctions have flooded the market but how many different people are actually partaking in these auctions?
And the talk of more cons so more treasure being out there is also affecting but once again how many different people are drawing that much treasure ? I would say I draw about 350 treasure a year and that is probably way above average and that amount of treasure isn’t enough to affect any supply/demand graph.
So is it healthy for a game that is trying to grow change things based on 30 different people that are running non stop auctions and drawing 2k-3k treasure a year?

There are not 30 people who have run 8k auctions in the last year.

There has not been a single person who has run “nonstop” auctions over any time period longer than a month or two.

The entire idea that auctions are responsible for the glut of trade goods is, in my opinion, not based on a sturdy foundation. I don’t know why we’d assume auctions increase the total tokens in circulation, as opposed to simply reflecting the demand for PyPs that would be met one way or another.

Matthew Hayward wrote: There are not 30 people who have run 8k auctions in the last year.

There has not been a single person who has run “nonstop” auctions over any time period longer than a month or two.

The entire idea that auctions are responsible for the glut of trade goods is, in my opinion, not based on a sturdy foundation. I don’t know why we’d assume auctions increase the total tokens in circulation, as opposed to simply reflecting the demand for PyPs that would be met one way or another.

I was stating that there are 30 people combined between running auctions and pulling huge amounts of treasure and I don’t think it’s healthy to alter the transmute system, making it more costly and harder , to appease a break caused by so few.
I get what your saying about assuming that the orders would be made in some way shape or form so people can get the pyps that they want anyway, I would say IMO that I agree that some would be placed without an auction but not in the numbers we have seen , just the mass quantity of auctions shows that more people are breaking into the “spend money” portion of this game and that is reflected by the reports of record pre order sales and the fact that there are like 12 different pre order auctions already.

jpotter wrote:

Steven wrote: Or have it where if you contribute x amount of trade goods you can get a completion token of your choice, this would help make it so you could still make completion tokens for every con and the people who can’t attend can still get them

OH PLEASE OH PLEASE YES THIS ONE

+1

Matthew Hayward wrote:
I hear what you're saying about tapping out - but if it's about money, I have a practical suggestion: Buy the relic someone else made - it will be cheaper than the goods - this has been pretty steady state for ~5+ years now.

I don’t understand this line of thinking. I thought the purpose of the transmute system was to give everyone something to do with “useless to them” tokens. So if your suggestion is to just buy it on the secondary market what then am I gonna do with my trade good tokens that I accumulate over the years? Because when I get close to the finish line to make a relic transmute the finish line gets moved because others have 100x more than me and need a place to get rid of there tokens.

Steven wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
I hear what you're saying about tapping out - but if it's about money, I have a practical suggestion: Buy the relic someone else made - it will be cheaper than the goods - this has been pretty steady state for ~5+ years now.

I don’t understand this line of thinking. I thought the purpose of the transmute system was to give everyone something to do with “useless to them” tokens. So if your suggestion is to just buy it on the secondary market what then am I gonna do with my trade good tokens that I accumulate over the years? Because when I get close to the finish line to make a relic transmute the finish line gets moved because others have 100x more than me and need a place to get rid of there tokens.

Sell those trade goods to the very people you are buying the relics from.

Anthony Barnstable wrote:

Steven wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
I hear what you're saying about tapping out - but if it's about money, I have a practical suggestion: Buy the relic someone else made - it will be cheaper than the goods - this has been pretty steady state for ~5+ years now.

I don’t understand this line of thinking. I thought the purpose of the transmute system was to give everyone something to do with “useless to them” tokens. So if your suggestion is to just buy it on the secondary market what then am I gonna do with my trade good tokens that I accumulate over the years? Because when I get close to the finish line to make a relic transmute the finish line gets moved because others have 100x more than me and need a place to get rid of there tokens.

Sell those trade goods to the very people you are buying the relics from.

That is an alternative. Though it should not be the solution.
Not saying you think it's the solution btw

Also +1 to Steven. That is my point exactly about the transmutting.

Here's the thing. This is a collectable game based on blind booster purchases. Just like a CCG or mini's game. Where TD sets itself apart is the ability to make use of these "useless to me" tokens. Unlike Magic or Heroclix where more than likely you are stuck with extra garbage that you can never turn in for something useful.

At some point you have to accept the fact you're gonna have extra stuff you just can't maximize value on and are stuck with
In this case, trade tokens.
By increasing recipe cost just to make trade tokens more valuable in the secondary market is short sighted (again, assuming this is a driving reason).

As Steven pointed out, if you keep changing the finish line, those of us not buying 8k will always have a problem making transmute items. We'll save and save only to find it's still not enough.

Note: I am not opposed to purchasing in the secondary market. I have made good transactions with Kirk and Trent and a few others. But to say some of us have to rely on the secondary market to acquire trade tokens to craft a Relic or something else is...well...not ideal.

The PYP system also sets TD apart from collectible card or minis games. You don't have to rely on luck to get that specific Ultra rare you want.

Steven wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
I hear what you're saying about tapping out - but if it's about money, I have a practical suggestion: Buy the relic someone else made - it will be cheaper than the goods - this has been pretty steady state for ~5+ years now.

I don’t understand this line of thinking. I thought the purpose of the transmute system was to give everyone something to do with “useless to them” tokens. So if your suggestion is to just buy it on the secondary market what then am I gonna do with my trade good tokens that I accumulate over the years? Because when I get close to the finish line to make a relic transmute the finish line gets moved because others have 100x more than me and need a place to get rid of there tokens.

Your conflating two things.

If you want relics, and don't want to pay a lot, or be impacted by the increased recipes, just buy them completed. Full stop. That advice has nothing to do with the system overall.

Relics are targeted at people who have at least $1k worth of token 10 packs (or equivalently maybe 400 treasure pulls) laying around. If you're looking for a use for your useless tokens, you'd need at least this amount to consider making a relic - if you have less you'd want to aim at Exalted/Enhanced transmutes, and/or use your trade goods to offset the cost of a completed Relic purchase in trade.

In particular, relics are not targeted at giving everyone something to do with leftovers - you need a lot of leftovers before relics come in reach, and always have.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Steven wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
I hear what you're saying about tapping out - but if it's about money, I have a practical suggestion: Buy the relic someone else made - it will be cheaper than the goods - this has been pretty steady state for ~5+ years now.

I don’t understand this line of thinking. I thought the purpose of the transmute system was to give everyone something to do with “useless to them” tokens. So if your suggestion is to just buy it on the secondary market what then am I gonna do with my trade good tokens that I accumulate over the years? Because when I get close to the finish line to make a relic transmute the finish line gets moved because others have 100x more than me and need a place to get rid of there tokens.

Your conflating two things.

If you want relics, and don't want to pay a lot, or be impacted by the increased recipes, just buy them completed. Full stop. That advice has nothing to do with the system overall.


Relics are targeted at people who have at least $1k worth of token 10 packs (or equivalently maybe 400 treasure pulls) laying around. If you're looking for a use for your useless tokens, you'd need at least this amount to consider making a relic - if you have less you'd want to aim at Exalted/Enhanced transmutes, and/or use your trade goods to offset the cost of a completed Relic purchase in trade.

In particular, relics are not targeted at giving everyone something to do with leftovers - you need a lot of leftovers before relics come in reach, and always have.

I agree. I'm not asking that relics be a cakewalk to make. But you can't make the current relics with 1 or 2 1k orders. You need at nearly twice that with the 2020 Relics. And it is a trend that, in a few years, you may need even more than the 3k-4k to make just one Relic.

And it's all one thought to me. The purpose of the transmutting is to buy orders from TD, craft the trade tokens, and then craft the Relics and other items. But if in the evolution of crafting these various tokens, it no longer becomes cost effective with certain budgets, then the system may need to evaluated.
IMO, the secondary market is there as a means to fill in the gaps after you buy an order. It should not have to be looked upon as the main means to get transmute token, or majority of trade items in addition to a decent sized order.

Also, the treasure pulls is a different animal all together. The balance of the tokens in the box is different than what's in the orders. Also, the amount of pulls is different depending on what treasure enhanced tokens are used and the number of runs done. So this aspect is a wild card.

DrStupid v1.0 wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Steven wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
I hear what you're saying about tapping out - but if it's about money, I have a practical suggestion: Buy the relic someone else made - it will be cheaper than the goods - this has been pretty steady state for ~5+ years now.

I don’t understand this line of thinking. I thought the purpose of the transmute system was to give everyone something to do with “useless to them” tokens. So if your suggestion is to just buy it on the secondary market what then am I gonna do with my trade good tokens that I accumulate over the years? Because when I get close to the finish line to make a relic transmute the finish line gets moved because others have 100x more than me and need a place to get rid of there tokens.

Your conflating two things.

If you want relics, and don't want to pay a lot, or be impacted by the increased recipes, just buy them completed. Full stop. That advice has nothing to do with the system overall.


Relics are targeted at people who have at least $1k worth of token 10 packs (or equivalently maybe 400 treasure pulls) laying around. If you're looking for a use for your useless tokens, you'd need at least this amount to consider making a relic - if you have less you'd want to aim at Exalted/Enhanced transmutes, and/or use your trade goods to offset the cost of a completed Relic purchase in trade.

In particular, relics are not targeted at giving everyone something to do with leftovers - you need a lot of leftovers before relics come in reach, and always have.

I agree. I'm not asking that relics be a cakewalk to make. But you can't make the current relics with 1 or 2 1k orders. You need at nearly twice that with the 2020 Relics. And it is a trend that, in a few years, you may need even more than the 3k-4k to make just one Relic.

And it's all one thought to me. The purpose of the transmutting is to buy orders from TD, craft the trade tokens, and then craft the Relics and other items. But if in the evolution of crafting these various tokens, it no longer becomes cost effective with certain budgets, then the system may need to evaluated.
IMO, the secondary market is there as a means to fill in the gaps after you buy an order. It should not have to be looked upon as the main means to get transmute token, or majority of trade items in addition to a decent sized order.

Also, the treasure pulls is a different animal all together. The balance of the tokens in the box is different than what's in the orders. Also, the amount of pulls is different depending on what treasure enhanced tokens are used and the number of runs done. So this aspect is a wild card.

You can make multiple Relics with a single 1K order. You can most likely make 3 of them. Take the 1K you have and buy three Relics from Kirk, Trent, Laz, etc. Then you don't have to worry about dealing with a bunch of Tokens you don't need or being short on any of the trade goods. Same advice goes for others that are worried about recipes increasing.

Matthew Hayward wrote:
In particular, relics are not targeted at giving everyone something to do with leftovers - you need a lot of leftovers before relics come in reach, and always have.

I would be careful with this line of thinking, it’s very elitist and sounds like you don’t want people to play on your playground

I would also say that the relic is meant for everyone even if it is a pipe dream but to look at the recipes and do some math on how much you acquire in a given year you can say to your self “ 3 years and I’ll be able to get a relic that I earned and didn’t just buy off of the secondary market”
It’s also nice to know that if done smart that you can finally get an item that is desired and might get you able to trade.

Rob F wrote: You can make multiple Relics with a single 1K order. You can most likely make 3 of them. Take the 1K you have and buy three Relics from Kirk, Trent, Laz, etc. Then you don't have to worry about dealing with a bunch of Tokens you don't need or being short on any of the trade goods. Same advice goes for others that are worried about recipes increasing.

Which of the Relics from 2019 or 2020 can you make with a single 1k order???