TOPIC: 2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR

Flik wrote: I guess [Gem of Last Hope] isn’t meant for newer players

Correct. Lenses of the Owl 🟂 is aimed square in the face at new players who want to dip their toes into transmuting. Something that brings you back from the dead and completely heals you should not be a trivial thing.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: Transmutes/combos were designed to be a token sink. So we don’t have boxes and boxes of commons in the closet.
People want to debate the cost etc. but I would rather have a token sink than extra tokens laying around not doing anything

True. And MS and PS need a sink far more than DS and MH do.

Ian Lee wrote: Still thinking that Ring of Jealous Fervor is supposed to be an ingredient to Ring of Fervor.

fixed

Ian Lee wrote: I would not have Shirt of the Oaf be part of a legendary. Ring of Wonder, perhaps.

agreed, it's now Taborlin's Key

Endgame wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: Transmutes/combos were designed to be a token sink. So we don’t have boxes and boxes of commons in the closet.
People want to debate the cost etc. but I would rather have a token sink than extra tokens laying around not doing anything

So you want a reasonably priced transmute then instead of one that costs so much no one redeems for it. Glad you agree with me. Now about the Recipe

I don’t agree with you at all.

macXdmg wrote: An example of a necklace

Drakes relic
Ring of he drake
Any UR, ever, we have extra, they may go for sub $50
5× Alchemist’s Ink
5× Alchemist’s Parchment
1× Aragonite
15× Darkwood Plank
5× Dwarven Steel
1× Elven Bismuth
5x Enchanters Munition
1× Golden Fleece
1× Minotaur Hide
10× Mystic Silk
1× Oil of Enchantment
10× Philosopher’s Stone
5,000 GP in Reserve bars

Or without the extra UR
Ring of the drake
10× Alchemist’s Ink
5× Alchemist’s Parchment
1× Aragonite
20× Darkwood Plank
5× Dwarven Steel
2× Elven Bismuth
5x Enchanters Munition
1× Golden Fleece
5× Minotaur Hide
15× Mystic Silk
2× Oil of Enchantment
15× Philosopher’s Stone
5,000 GP in Reserve bars

Giving me a choice to just get any old ur from you means I can order 4 of what I want, and use the extra if I like it, or trade it if it’s worth it, or just upgrade what I already wanted to get from you. It means that no UR ever is bad. Good tokens will stay and bad will just stay in collections. And old tokens with low evaluations don’t become garbage, they retain a value regardless.

It does mean that the anti-social can just do their ordering, get their needs met, and don’t ever have to visit the forums, or talk with token traders. This may be undesired, we may not want those who don’t like to haggle in our game, but I know one couple who would love to never have to trade.

I think we we welcome everyone into True Dungeon, including those that don't like haggling and trading.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Endgame wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: Transmutes/combos were designed to be a token sink. So we don’t have boxes and boxes of commons in the closet.
People want to debate the cost etc. but I would rather have a token sink than extra tokens laying around not doing anything

So you want a reasonably priced transmute then instead of one that costs so much no one redeems for it. Glad you agree with me. Now about the Recipe

I don’t agree with you at all.

You said you want a token sink...a bad recipe will be minimally used, By collectors and people who don't know they can buy the same thing at half the price. A recipe that is minimally used is not a global TD token sink.

If you want to just get rid of trade goods, I'd be happy to trade fallen star mushrooms for the current recipe cost

Mike Steele wrote:

macXdmg wrote: An example of a necklace

Drakes relic
Ring of he drake
Any UR, ever, we have extra, they may go for sub $50
5× Alchemist’s Ink
5× Alchemist’s Parchment
1× Aragonite
15× Darkwood Plank
5× Dwarven Steel
1× Elven Bismuth
5x Enchanters Munition
1× Golden Fleece
1× Minotaur Hide
10× Mystic Silk
1× Oil of Enchantment
10× Philosopher’s Stone
5,000 GP in Reserve bars

Or without the extra UR
Ring of the drake
10× Alchemist’s Ink
5× Alchemist’s Parchment
1× Aragonite
20× Darkwood Plank
5× Dwarven Steel
2× Elven Bismuth
5x Enchanters Munition
1× Golden Fleece
5× Minotaur Hide
15× Mystic Silk
2× Oil of Enchantment
15× Philosopher’s Stone
5,000 GP in Reserve bars

Giving me a choice to just get any old ur from you means I can order 4 of what I want, and use the extra if I like it, or trade it if it’s worth it, or just upgrade what I already wanted to get from you. It means that no UR ever is bad. Good tokens will stay and bad will just stay in collections. And old tokens with low evaluations don’t become garbage, they retain a value regardless.

It does mean that the anti-social can just do their ordering, get their needs met, and don’t ever have to visit the forums, or talk with token traders. This may be undesired, we may not want those who don’t like to haggle in our game, but I know one couple who would love to never have to trade.

I think we we welcome everyone into True Dungeon, including those that don't like haggling and trading.

Am i the only one that finds this comment a bit ironic coming from mike?

kurtreznor wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

macXdmg wrote: An example of a necklace

Drakes relic
Ring of he drake
Any UR, ever, we have extra, they may go for sub $50
5× Alchemist’s Ink
5× Alchemist’s Parchment
1× Aragonite
15× Darkwood Plank
5× Dwarven Steel
1× Elven Bismuth
5x Enchanters Munition
1× Golden Fleece
1× Minotaur Hide
10× Mystic Silk
1× Oil of Enchantment
10× Philosopher’s Stone
5,000 GP in Reserve bars

Or without the extra UR
Ring of the drake
10× Alchemist’s Ink
5× Alchemist’s Parchment
1× Aragonite
20× Darkwood Plank
5× Dwarven Steel
2× Elven Bismuth
5x Enchanters Munition
1× Golden Fleece
5× Minotaur Hide
15× Mystic Silk
2× Oil of Enchantment
15× Philosopher’s Stone
5,000 GP in Reserve bars

Giving me a choice to just get any old ur from you means I can order 4 of what I want, and use the extra if I like it, or trade it if it’s worth it, or just upgrade what I already wanted to get from you. It means that no UR ever is bad. Good tokens will stay and bad will just stay in collections. And old tokens with low evaluations don’t become garbage, they retain a value regardless.

It does mean that the anti-social can just do their ordering, get their needs met, and don’t ever have to visit the forums, or talk with token traders. This may be undesired, we may not want those who don’t like to haggle in our game, but I know one couple who would love to never have to trade.

I think we we welcome everyone into True Dungeon, including those that don't like haggling and trading.

Am i the only one that finds this comment a bit ironic coming from mike?

Mike is happy when people don't haggle. That means he gets his asking price.

Endgame wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Endgame wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: Transmutes/combos were designed to be a token sink. So we don’t have boxes and boxes of commons in the closet.
People want to debate the cost etc. but I would rather have a token sink than extra tokens laying around not doing anything

So you want a reasonably priced transmute then instead of one that costs so much no one redeems for it. Glad you agree with me. Now about the Recipe

I don’t agree with you at all.

You said you want a token sink...a bad recipe will be minimally used, By collectors and people who don't know they can buy the same thing at half the price. A recipe that is minimally used is not a global TD token sink.

If you want to just get rid of trade goods, I'd be happy to trade fallen star mushrooms for the current recipe cost

Relic and legendary costs have increased before. And people still make them. Compare Pharacus to more recent ones. Two URs instead of one. Two GF, not one.

Now they seem set on increasing again. I wonder if this is a result of increased token sales. More stuff to abosorb?

Cut-off is end of day today: Friday, September 13, 2019.
Tell me specifically what needs to be changed before this goes to the printer and is forever immutable.
Vagaries and petty whining will be blithely ignored.

Harlax wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Flik wrote:

edwin wrote: One shop Gem costing:
~$8 potion token + 20 cheap trade goods + 2019 monster bit + specific rare token +1K GP

Cost approximately $50 to $60 for once compared to $80 per run at GenCon.

Use $8 potion and potions of condensed healing is much cheaper buy does take longer.

The real question is: What did Fallen Star Mushroom take to create and how much did those materials cost back then? I didn't play back then and I don't have the time to look.

But I think you're underselling how much this Gem costs to anyone not buying trade goods on wholesale prices. If you guys go back to the original couple pages of this thread me and a couple others were saying this Gem costs too much in $ to make. Here's my breakdown:

Gem of Last Hope
• Potion [Death’s Door or Revival Root] $5
• Earcuff of Vitality (any year) $5 (guessing?)
• 10× Darkwood Plank $20 (yes 1.25/ea or 1.5/ea from wholesale but everyone else they are closer to $2. Honestly the trade goods won't stop many people and are probably a good sink for these mats)
• 10× Philosopher’s Stone $20
• 1,000 GP $16-17 (wholesale, though 5k bars are cheaper in other sources)
plus ONLY ONE of the following:
o Blight Bud ($15 on average for these bits unless other con supply has brought them down; 2019 bits are in high demand)
o Fiend Talon
o Lamia Scale
o Slayer Tentacle
o Stalker Blood
o Swamp Hag Venom

---

That's pretty much $80 to turn your PODD into this Gem. Now most of us have the trade goods and don't mind spending them but that extra 1k GP is really a kick in the teeth when you add a 2019 monster bit on it. I don't see many of these being made at all. I guess we wait all year until bits devalue late on 2020 and then make this recipe but I'm curious to know how expensive Fallen Star was when it came out. I know they are only worth $35-40 now but that might be misleading. Amusingly though, if they are only worth $40 then honestly this token should only cost like $50 to make.

My estimate:

PoDD - 5
Earcuff - 3
10 Plank - 10
10 Stone - 10
1K GP - 15
Bit - 12-15 (now). Probably cheaper later.

Cost - 58 now. I predict Plank and Stone will continue to fall (probably to .75 or even lower) as will the Bits, but not by much. So after 2020 Token purchases my estimate is about $48 to transmute, eventually lower if u wait to buy on secondary market.

I'm curious... If these recipes go through, demand for Plank and Stone goes up as a result. So why would prices go down further?

If the various proposals to increase PS and MS and reduce DS and MH are adopted, prices should go up.

IMO even with these recipes demand for Plank and Stone will not go up. There's just too much out there and there's going to be a ton more after 2020 Token orders. Prices on Plank/Stone will be at or under $1.

I would like to reiterate my position.

The amount of minotaur hide and dwarven steel in these recipes is too high for my tastes. This is particularly noticeable when comparing 2020 recipes with their 2019 counterparts immediately printed below.

I propose -5 minotaur hide and -5 dwarven steel from each of the relic and legendary recipes. In turn, I propose +5 darkwoord plank, +5 Mystic Silk, and +5 Philosopher's Stone.

This would allow for an increase in overall trade goods, which seems quite reasonable year over year, without requiring more of the trade goods which can't be easily made from treasure pulls.

Hopefully this is specific and rational enough to not be blithely ignored.

Considered and disregarded would be fine.