TOPIC: 2020 Transmute Recipes, From the QTR

jedibcg wrote:

edwin wrote: If you are just looking for 1 relic it is far cheaper just to buy it on the secondary market.

True but I doubt that is what he is doing. Many of us like to support TD by buying from TD. We purchase at a certain level (whatever it may be), if we end up with extra tokens we transmute them. If you have been buying at a level that allows you to make a relic and now are not able to because the recipe is more expensive than that level it than and being told that you have to order more (maybe another 1k worth) or go to the second market can leave a sour taste in ones mouth.

That said I am not saying that there should not be increase. Just TD should have an idea on about what it takes to be able to make a relic from purchase orders alone for the past two years. If the increase is such that it would require another 1k or more to make a relic then maybe there needs more balancing. Some items have been too scare in the ingredients needed in the past and a slight adjust to compensate probably is needed (see munitions).

edwin wrote:
Understood. Trading can get you there and trade good values go go up and down. Right now they seem to be at lows or near lows value wise.

kurtreznor wrote: Fleece...we need a better solution. I think requiring 1 fleece for every relic is too much, but without it the market gets flooded. There needs to be another sink for fleece/monster bits that isnt the relics. 2019 seemed to hit the mark just right. I know we all paniced at first, but i think the final numbers worked out...but a big part of that was because we had spare fleece from previous years. If supply and requirements stay at 2019 levels, im screwed.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Fleece...we need a better solution. I think requiring 1 fleece for every relic is too much, but without it the market gets flooded. There needs to be another sink for fleece/monster bits that isnt the relics. 2019 seemed to hit the mark just right. I know we all paniced at first, but i think the final numbers worked out...but a big part of that was because we had spare fleece from previous years. If supply and requirements stay at 2019 levels, im screwed.

I would just point out that Fleece is still going for low $60s nowadays, far under the $80+ it used to command back in the olden days.

I think perhaps we could keep having 1 GF per relic until we start seeing ebay sales over $75. I would also support other sinks for MB.

Dave wrote: I think the recipes look much better from where we started. I would just add to those that say DS and MH look like they are going back to being limiting factors. Several years back I was having the same problem and then it got better. Even though I've been trying to horde those two, I'm still going to come up short. Oh well.

Michael Ernst wrote:

Endgame wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: I dont like any of the proposed recipe iterations, for various reasons already mentioned, plus more.

I think the recipes can/should have much bigger differences, not just slight tweaks to the numbers. Rather than each relic having plank, silk, and stone at some variation of 10, 15, and 20; make them wildly different but total up to the same. One relic could be 40 silk, but only 5 stone and plank; another is 50 plank; another is 30... you get the idea.
And apply that principle to other trade goods as well. Encourage trading to get what you need rather than buying the items you are short on. And those of us wanting one of every relic will need the full balance from a large order.

As to specific goods.
Munitions at 10+ was insane. It could go up to 5ish, but i do like the idea of only needing 2 or 3, which could bottom out the price on ammo and convince players to USE ammo in the dungeon.
MH and DS, please dont raise these to the high level of the silk, plank, and stone. They only come from commons, and are thus the ONLY trade goods you will never get from treasure draws.

Plank, stone, and silk; needing more is fine. Maybe do small increases on these each year until things find a balance?

Fleece...we need a better solution. I think requiring 1 fleece for every relic is too much, but without it the market gets flooded. There needs to be another sink for fleece/monster bits that isnt the relics. 2019 seemed to hit the mark just right. I know we all paniced at first, but i think the final numbers worked out...but a big part of that was because we had spare fleece from previous years. If supply and requirements stay at 2019 levels, im screwed.

+1 to all of this.

Today's revision on the relics helps, but I agree with the above comment that the MH and DS could really use a reduction still. Maybe half DS and MH and don't change anything else? The recipes still seem really, really expensive compared to 2018 and 2019. Could you even build 1 relic out of a 2K order?

Based on this post here , a 2K order would be short ~4 Minotaur Hide on +3 Holy Avenger. It would be short ~4 Minotaur Hide and 3-4 Dwarven Steel on Medallion of Furious attack,. It would be short 3-4 Dwarven steel on Necklace of the Spirit Drake. Pendant of the Yew looks like it would be short ~4 Alchemist's Ink and Alchemist's parchment. Those are the limiting materials for those recipes, in all cases you would end up with excess of other materials. So a 2K order seems very close (in terms of trade goods)

jedibcg wrote:

edwin wrote:
Understood. Trading can get you there and trade good values go go up and down. Right now they seem to be at lows or near lows value wise.

I have a surplus of DP, MS, and PS and a shortage of DS. What are your trading rates?....lol.

kurtreznor wrote: It is bad enough that a set $ order comes up short on the same trade goods for every relic, but it is significantly worse when those are the only trade goods you cant make from treasure draws. Just because they are made from commons does not mean they are as common as DP, MS, & PS. A lot of my extras of those 3 is because of rares and uncommons, both in packs and treasure draws.

edwin wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

edwin wrote:
Understood. Trading can get you there and trade good values go go up and down. Right now they seem to be at lows or near lows value wise.

I have a surplus of DP, MS, and PS and a shortage of DS. What are your trading rates?....lol.

Better luck with GP, URs or specific rare tokens.