TOPIC: Time to start the 2021 Token dev process

Endgame wrote:

Arnold wrote: It was mentioned in another thread that a +2 Str +2 Dex gloves would not be strong enough or desirable enough to print as an UR.

How about as a 4 point transmute? I would love a token like that for a shuriken Ring of the Eel build. In rare cases, it might be a worthwhile trade in order to equip Thor's.

Interesting idea - I would be on board. Think I could talk you into a 3/2 setup? either way is fine with me, but it’s probably less over the top at +2 str and +3 Dex.

3/2 or 2/3 is probably too good, I'd think. at 2/2 it seems in line with other 4 star transmutes of the past. I'm thinking Belt of Blessed Con and Shirt of Blessed Strength.

I do see merit in letting 4 star transmutes increase in power, though. I don't think we should keep power trapped away at the UR level and above.

That'd be a cool idea for a themed run - Always Blue (and TEs, of course). Just need some transmuted weapons.

So if people are concerned about wizards running out of spells what about "when out of spells" as a trigger...

Ie

Ritual of last resort: Does 1 damage to target when out of spells. Can be modified, cannot be a free action, not consumed.

Arnold wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Arnold wrote: It was mentioned in another thread that a +2 Str +2 Dex gloves would not be strong enough or desirable enough to print as an UR.

How about as a 4 point transmute? I would love a token like that for a shuriken Ring of the Eel build. In rare cases, it might be a worthwhile trade in order to equip Thor's.

Interesting idea - I would be on board. Think I could talk you into a 3/2 setup? either way is fine with me, but it’s probably less over the top at +2 str and +3 Dex.

3/2 or 2/3 is probably too good, I'd think. at 2/2 it seems in line with other 4 star transmutes of the past. I'm thinking Belt of Blessed Con and Shirt of Blessed Strength.

I do see merit in letting 4 star transmutes increase in power, though. I don't think we should keep power trapped away at the UR level and above.

That'd be a cool idea for a themed run - Always Blue (and TEs, of course). Just need some transmuted weapons.

My only concern about making them 2/2 would be the comparison to Gauntlets of the Midgard serpent. I think most of my party would stick to those instead of 2 str and 2 Dex Gloves. Maybe 3 str / 1 Dex Gloves as a 4 star? That would free up the greaves slot for something other than Venom guard greaves or free up an IS slot in some builds.

Picc wrote: So if people are concerned about wizards running out of spells what about "when out of spells" as a trigger...

Ie

Ritual of last resort: Does 1 damage to target when out of spells. Can be modified, cannot be a free action, not consumed.

I like it. This is one I probably wouldn’t even mind as a slot less token

I think it's cool too.

Just to be a pill, though, aren't scrolls & wands precisely there to balance out running out of spells, or when spells are not at the right cost/benefit ratio for the situation?

Wizards are able to use the best wands (for the past couple years, anyway), and can use half the scrolls.

Singsalot wrote: I think it's cool too.

Just to be a pill, though, aren't scrolls & wands precisely there to balance out running out of spells, or when spells are not at the right cost/benefit ratio for the situation?

Wizards are able to use the best wands (for the past couple years, anyway), and can use half the scrolls.

Wands and scrolls do not come close to matching a standard attack in damage.
No other damage dealing class can "run out" of their attack ability and be forced to permanently expend real world items to continue participating in combat.

Hence the aim to create a token for Wizards in this situation

Come to think of it, I came up with a Wizard weapon when word of the Tomb of Terrors came out.

Scepter X: Mainhand melee weapon.

Common: Just a 1-4 or 1-6 club weapon ALL (maybe also a 50g token?)
Uncommon: +1 to hit and damage if INT above 16? (100g)
Rare: Use INT Bonus for +x to Hit and +x Damage? (400g)
UR/Transmute:
Minimum 18 or 20 INT to use as anything more than a 1-6 club.
+2 spell damage
When sliding spells on the combat board, slide this token. Add the damage wheel to the spell's base damage.
Crit + best damage result = recover the spell slot just used.

Some of these abilities could be split with a paired Head slot that provides extra INT if it's too much.
(the head slot also was maybe going to let casters do a spell test or erase a spell for the Rogue clue)

Other ideas are:

Tokens that transfer Spell Damage bonus to scrolls or wands

an UR wand/staff/scepter/rod that does weak melee damage or 1 ranged spell damage per round but is affected by tokens that increase spell damage

more ways to recover spell slots with token slots, abandoned rounds, bleeding, etc. (Rare scroll that puts the wizard in a Maze for x rounds, then gets back x or x+1 levels of spell? Rings/Necklaces/Ioun Stones of limited spell storing, i.e. only get back certain levels of spell?

Singsalot wrote: Come to think of it, I came up with a Wizard weapon when word of the Tomb of Terrors came out.

Scepter X: Mainhand melee weapon.

Common: Just a 1-4 or 1-6 club weapon ALL (maybe also a 50g token?)
Uncommon: +1 to hit and damage if INT above 16? (100g)
Rare: Use INT Bonus for +x to Hit and +x Damage? (400g)
UR/Transmute:
Minimum 18 or 20 INT to use as anything more than a 1-6 club.
+2 spell damage
When sliding spells on the combat board, slide this token. Add the damage wheel to the spell's base damage.
Crit + best damage result = recover the spell slot just used.

Some of these abilities could be split with a paired Head slot that provides extra INT if it's too much.
(the head slot also was maybe going to let casters do a spell test or erase a spell for the Rogue clue)

Other ideas are:

Tokens that transfer Spell Damage bonus to scrolls or wands

an UR wand/staff/scepter/rod that does weak melee damage or 1 ranged spell damage per round but is affected by tokens that increase spell damage

more ways to recover spell slots with token slots, abandoned rounds, bleeding, etc. (Rare scroll that puts the wizard in a Maze for x rounds, then gets back x or x+1 levels of spell? Rings/Necklaces/Ioun Stones of limited spell storing, i.e. only get back certain levels of spell?

A maze for X rounds? That is perfect because when I play Wizard my two favorite things are convincing the party I am useful because of how I don’t participate for multiple rounds and the second thing I love is not participating for multiple rounds!

Turkey Leg: A common weapon with a 1-1-1-1-1-1 damage wheel (turn in for +2 hp?)

Hat of Holding: Protects scrolls, potions, rabbits from danger. Allows a free action drink?
Maybe could have a short list of random spells or effects?

On that note, maybe we could get a "Flock of Doves" consumable thrown weapon?

Bard Instruments:

Triangle of Feeding: playing provides extra health when eating food OR allows all players to eat as a free action?

Bagpipes of Drowning: prevents spellcasting or possession by enemy?

Accordion of Charm: enemy Will save or players get a free round (damage dealt ends effect for remainder of battle)

Horn of Battle: In Round 1, melee attackers gain +1 to hit, +4 damage, immune to fear or possession (for 1 round)

Tambourine: No extra Bard bonus, but only uses one hand

Drum/stick: Drumstick/mallet is a 1-4 melee weapon, drum is offhand.

One Man Band:
Either: A torso/back slot instrument token that provides +1/+1 bonus and hands free

Or: A set of tokens that work together (either just by doing different stuff, or with an actual set bonus)

example:

Back: Drum: +1 damage if the Bard can move
Legs or Shins: Cymbals: +1 to hit if the Bard can move
Hands: Either allow for any instrument, or a specific one, or a Shield that is a drum or cymbal, and a weapon that is a drumstick or hammer
Neck: Harmonica stand: Allows for performance (no bonus) hands-free (no spells or scrolls)

Anthony Barnstable wrote: A maze for X rounds? That is perfect because when I play Wizard my two favorite things are convincing the party I am useful because of how I don’t participate for multiple rounds and the second thing I love is not participating for multiple rounds!

I hear you, but
a) we're talking about a Rare scroll, not an UR item
b) a similar token already exists for healing purposes
c) there's probably a time-to-benefit ratio out there that would make it appealing in certain circumstances (maybe 1 round for a lvl 3 spell, 2 lvl 2s, or 3 lvl 1s?)
d) this came up because people were positing that there were ALREADY circumstances where they weren't contributing; this would at least allow that to turn into something useful
e) you could still take a turn in the Maze to prep for the next round
f) maybe you use it in the 2nd battle, after using your best spell, totally boosted, and then bring it back for the last battle while your team is wrapping up - I haven't seen a TON of Nightmare/Epic fights, but in my experience, the Wizard's best spell is 2x-4x better than anything a non-caster can bring.

Singsalot wrote: f) maybe you use it in the 2nd battle, after using your best spell, totally boosted, and then bring it back for the last battle while your team is wrapping up - I haven't seen a TON of Nightmare/Epic fights, but in my experience, the Wizard's best spell is 2x-4x better than anything a non-caster can bring.

That's unfortunately not true. Even at their best +damage the Wizards best spell doesn't 4x the damage of other damage dealers who are also fully equipped.

It's definitely useful, just not that high.

I really like the idea of Wizards having familiars as a Ranged Weapon option and I really like the thought of it connecting to their spellpower. What if we removed the Wizard's to hit and set it statically for each familiar?


ALL FAMILIAR ATTACKS USE THE LISTED BONUS TO SLIDES NOT THE WIZARDS BONUS

Uncommon

Imp Familiar
+5 to slide for hit chance
On hit: deals fire damage equal to Wizard's Spell Power
Wizard only

Rare

Mimic Familiar
+10 to slide for hit chance
On hit: deals physical damage equal to Wizard's Spell Power
+2 to Wizard hit and damage while Polymorphed
Wizard only


Ultra Rare

Pseudodragon Familiar
+15 to slide for hit chance
On hit: deals fire damage equal to Wizard's Spell Power
+2 Shock Damage to Spells
1/game recast a previously expended 1st level spell
+3 to Wizard hit and damage while Polymorphed
Wizard only

From there the Familiar could actually be the Legendary path (potentially?)

Relic

Aetheric Pseudodragon Familiar
+18 to slide for hit chance
On hit: deals damage equal to Wizard's Spell Power
+3 Sonic damage to spells
+4 to hit and damage while Polymorphed
1/game recast a previously expended 1st lor 2nd level spell
Uses Spell Damage instead of Ranged Damage modifiers
Wizard only

Legendary

Arcanist's Will-O-Wisp
+21 to slide for hit chance
On hit: deals damage equal to Wizard's Spell Power
+5 Nature Damage to Spells
+6 to hit and damage while Polymorphed
2/game recast a previously expended spell
Wizard only