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TOPIC: FINAL NOTES & IMAGES 2020

FINAL NOTES & IMAGES 2020 3 months 3 weeks ago #97

jedibcg wrote:

archmage78 wrote: Here is the math. All players must have the teeth equipped and every player must be healed by 15 spells to get to 300.

Not exactly. It involves a few other UR’s and and Ro7P. I am not arguing the power just that 300 is possible with other tokens.


The quickest summary I can think of is that level 5 bards can heal the entire party several times and the interaction with Lenses of Divine Sight means that the healing bonus ends up being 2 to two people so it becomes a lot easier to get up to 300.
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FINAL NOTES & IMAGES 2020 3 months 3 weeks ago #98

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Endgame wrote:

archmage78 wrote: Here is the math. All players must have the teeth equipped and every player must be healed by 15 spells to get to 300.

0 teeth required.

Every cast of Soothe wounds heals 10 players. It's trivial to hit 4 Casts of Soothe wounds, which already accounts for 80 damage from keys.

Every lods cast adds 4. Base party with cleric and druid has 18 heals for another 72 healing from keys.

Without even trying you hit 152 extra healing.

I think he meant keys when he said teeth.
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FINAL NOTES & IMAGES 2020 3 months 3 weeks ago #99

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James Bennett wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

archmage78 wrote: Here is the math. All players must have the teeth equipped and every player must be healed by 15 spells to get to 300.

Not exactly. It involves a few other UR’s and and Ro7P. I am not arguing the power just that 300 is possible with other tokens.


The quickest summary I can think of is that level 5 bards can heal the entire party several times and the interaction with Lenses of Divine Sight means that the healing bonus ends up being 2 to two people so it becomes a lot easier to get up to 300.

Correct. If you have certain tokens it is possible. The Keys themselves don’t do it.
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.
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FINAL NOTES & IMAGES 2020 3 months 3 weeks ago #100

Again, the Keys don't do it. The keys DON'T add to anything. The only way to get to your number is for there to be an average of 15 healing spells cast on all 10 players. Nothing adds to or multiplies the keys healing.
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FINAL NOTES & IMAGES 2020 3 months 3 weeks ago #101

archmage78 wrote: Here is the math. All players must have the teeth equipped and every player must be healed by 15 spells to get to 300.


My feelings exactly, I think this type of analysis is unrealistic and will end up nerfing nearly every healing token if used. It assumes every Druid and Cleric has and uses Lenses of Divine Sight. It assumes the Bard casts his spells as healing instead of other possibilities. It assumes the Cleric and Druid have a Charm of Spell Swapping and convert all possible spells to healing spells. It assumes every time the Cleric & Druid cast a healing spell there are two players needing enough healing to use the +2 bonus each. It assumes that every time the Bard casts a healing spell, all players need enough healing to absorb the healing spell plus two additional healing each.

In other words, I think it's a pretty extreme example that will probably never even come close to reality.
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FINAL NOTES & IMAGES 2020 3 months 3 weeks ago #102

jedibcg wrote:

James Bennett wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

archmage78 wrote: Here is the math. All players must have the teeth equipped and every player must be healed by 15 spells to get to 300.

Not exactly. It involves a few other UR’s and and Ro7P. I am not arguing the power just that 300 is possible with other tokens.


The quickest summary I can think of is that level 5 bards can heal the entire party several times and the interaction with Lenses of Divine Sight means that the healing bonus ends up being 2 to two people so it becomes a lot easier to get up to 300.

Correct. If you have certain tokens it is possible. The Keys themselves don’t do it.


Those tokens do all that anyway. The only thing the Keys do is add 2 to each spell cast on the player who has the key equipped on him or her. There is nothing that adds to this plus 2, the plus 2 only adds to what is already there. That means that if a player gets 3 spells, that is 6 extra healing. That's it. As an Ultra rare that is incredibly weak. Each player is not going to need 15 spells cast on him or her. The game doesn't work like that. The math doesn't lie, to get to 300 extra healing every player on the team will need to be healed by 15 healing spells and while technically possible, it will never happen.

Tokens are judged by their usefulness. Something in the charm slot that gives me 18 extra treasure pulls, 2 extra damage every time I hit (which is a lot more often then I take damage), increases my chances of hitting, are all far better tokens. If math is involved, I get between 8-15 attack slides every game. I get treasure draw every game, I have HP every game so anything that gives me a higher max HP lessens the possibility for healing.

I maintain that this token, turned into a charm slot will almost never see use. Even the math will support that. It is a rare level Charm.
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Last edit: by archmage78.
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FINAL NOTES & IMAGES 2020 3 months 3 weeks ago #103

We will certainly be buying a key for every party member. If people hate the keys this much, maybe I'll be able to snag them for 60 to 75 each. Way way cheaper than tracking down 5 to 8 charms of synergy, and we will get more hp out of the key on the 3rd soothe wounds cast than out of 5 much more expensive charms of synergy.
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FINAL NOTES & IMAGES 2020 3 months 3 weeks ago #104

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archmage78 wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

James Bennett wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

archmage78 wrote: Here is the math. All players must have the teeth equipped and every player must be healed by 15 spells to get to 300.

Not exactly. It involves a few other UR’s and and Ro7P. I am not arguing the power just that 300 is possible with other tokens.


The quickest summary I can think of is that level 5 bards can heal the entire party several times and the interaction with Lenses of Divine Sight means that the healing bonus ends up being 2 to two people so it becomes a lot easier to get up to 300.

Correct. If you have certain tokens it is possible. The Keys themselves don’t do it.


Those tokens do all that anyway. The only thing the Keys do is add 2 to each spell cast on the player who has the key equipped on him or her. There is nothing that adds to this plus 2, the plus 2 only adds to what is already there. That means that if a player gets 3 spells, that is 6 extra healing. That's it. As an Ultra rare that is incredibly weak. Each player is not going to need 15 spells cast on him or her. The game doesn't work like that. The math doesn't lie, to get to 300 extra healing every player on the team will need to be healed by 15 healing spells and while technically possible, it will never happen.

Tokens are judged by their usefulness. Something in the charm slot that gives me 18 extra treasure pulls, 2 extra damage every time I hit (which is a lot more often then I take damage), increases my chances of hitting, are all far better tokens. If math is involved, I get between 8-15 attack slides every game. I get treasure draw every game, I have HP every game so anything that gives me a higher max HP lessens the possibility for healing.

I maintain that this token, turned into a charm slot will almost never see use. Even the math will support that. It is a rare level Charm.

now you are being silly comparing a legendary CoA to it.
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.
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FINAL NOTES & IMAGES 2020 3 months 3 weeks ago #105

Mike Steele wrote:

archmage78 wrote: Here is the math. All players must have the teeth equipped and every player must be healed by 15 spells to get to 300.


My feelings exactly, I think this type of analysis is unrealistic and will end up nerfing nearly every healing token if used. It assumes every Druid and Cleric has and uses Lenses of Divine Sight. It assumes the Bard casts his spells as healing instead of other possibilities. It assumes the Cleric and Druid have a Charm of Spell Swapping and convert all possible spells to healing spells. It assumes every time the Cleric & Druid cast a healing spell there are two players needing enough healing to use the +2 bonus each. It assumes that every time the Bard casts a healing spell, all players need enough healing to absorb the healing spell plus two additional healing each.

In other words, I think it's a pretty extreme example that will probably never even come close to reality.

Why is it to much to assume that the druid, bard, and cleric will use in print URs?
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FINAL NOTES & IMAGES 2020 3 months 3 weeks ago #106

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

archmage78 wrote: Here is the math. All players must have the teeth equipped and every player must be healed by 15 spells to get to 300.


My feelings exactly, I think this type of analysis is unrealistic and will end up nerfing nearly every healing token if used. It assumes every Druid and Cleric has and uses Lenses of Divine Sight. It assumes the Bard casts his spells as healing instead of other possibilities. It assumes the Cleric and Druid have a Charm of Spell Swapping and convert all possible spells to healing spells. It assumes every time the Cleric & Druid cast a healing spell there are two players needing enough healing to use the +2 bonus each. It assumes that every time the Bard casts a healing spell, all players need enough healing to absorb the healing spell plus two additional healing each.

In other words, I think it's a pretty extreme example that will probably never even come close to reality.

Why is it to much to assume that the druid, bard, and cleric will use in print URs?


Because there are options for different slots and different builds, and not all Druids and Clerics will have Lenses of Divine Sight, and not all will use Charms of Spell Swapping (nobody in my group uses Charms of Spell Swapping). I'm guessing few groups have Bards choosing all possible spells as healing and Druids and Clerics having Charms of Spell Swapping and choosing all possible spells as healing, and that every single Druid and Cleric healing spell heals two people at max and every single Bard healing spell heals everyone at max. I could just as easily choose the other end of the spectrum and say that a group could outfit 10 of the Keys and the Bards would choose non-healing spells and the Druid and Cleric would use Charms of Spell Swapping to choose all non-healing spells, and there were never more than one person needing healing at a time, and the Keys would be virtually useless.

There is a wide range of possibilities as to which groups have and use Lenses of Divine Sight and Charms of Spell Swapping and which groups maximize all spells as healing, as well as how many of the healing spells with LoDS do max healing on two different people and how many of the Bard healing spells do maximum healing on all 10 party members. Your example is the absolute extreme end of the "maximum healing" possibility on the spectrum - and I think incredibly unrealistic as I've never seen a group even get close to having everyone healed an average of 15 times.

I think in order to make a realistic analysis it needs to be more at a midpoint of the possible range. By choosing an analysis at the absolute maximum healing end of the range, it is unrealistic and inaccurate.
Last edit: by Mike Steele.
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FINAL NOTES & IMAGES 2020 3 months 3 weeks ago #107

Philip Goodman wrote: Two questions:
Does the +7 damage on the monk legendary also add to the damage when the FoB weapons are thrown? I'm assuming yes, but want to check.

Do you know if you have plans to change the effects of Gloves of the Flying Fists? What happens when a monk equips this legendary along with those gloves?


Yes...the +7 stacks.

No plans to nerf the GotFF. Nothing special happens when using the GofFF with the Legendary.
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FINAL NOTES & IMAGES 2020 3 months 3 weeks ago #108

Flik wrote: Why does the uncommon +1 shuriken have a different class restriction than the +2 shuriken?

I think, like all other shuriken printed, the rare needs to be Fighter, Monk, and Rogue only.


I will fix it. Thanks.
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