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TOPIC: Final Ultra Rare Images

Final Ultra Rare Images 3 months 3 weeks ago #73

MasterED wrote:

Raven wrote: I don't think that anything has been obsoleted here.
For non-Rogues, Lenses of the Fae is still better (particularly if you're at an odd Dex.) Don't discount the 50% miss irritation until you've gone up against incorporeal monsters!

For Rogues, this is clearly better than the Lenses of Vital Insight *only if* you use a bow or crossbow. But (as some folks so kindly pointed out to me recently!) not every Rogue has access to a bow/crossbow. Some haven't bought one (yet - this may incentivize their purchase) and others put enough resources into their Relic/Legend Hammer that they're not going to switch. It's definitely not a given.

Not to mention that this leaves room for some cool items in the future like Ranged Sneak Throwing Daggers or a cool Blunder Weapon (which adds accuracy for a Sniper Rogue build?)

I almost always are in lock step with you Raven but in this case I am in disagreement. What we have is the following powers:

+4 DEX (little less than UR - Transmute 4 Star - Exalted Creeper Necklace)
Ignore 50% incorporeal miss chance (Rare Level - Bead Whole Vision)
Sneak attack with a Ranged Weapon (UR Level - LoVI)
Sneak attack with Bows & Crossbows (little lower than UR Level somewhat like a Transmute - 4 Star)

So adding two Transmute Four Stars together is clearly better than an UR.

My suggestion is I think it was good at +2 and it should stay there. Because Sneak attack with both Bows and Crossbows is clearly better than a Rare level Bead of Whole Vision.

Ed

So for the rouge, its better than a UR. For anyone else that gets it, it's a 4 star. How do we do the math when averaged across all 12 classes?
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Final Ultra Rare Images 3 months 3 weeks ago #74

Great job Jeff and community...I really like the set. Seems like there is something for about everyone.

I do worry about adding new slotless tokens every year, every time one is add is gets a little tougher to manage a build. More to remember and more to carry. How about something like a Trinket slot with the ability to equip 5 or 7 slotless tokens. This is probably more trouble than it's worth, but just a thought.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 3 months 3 weeks ago #75

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David Harris wrote: Great job Jeff and community...I really like the set. Seems like there is something for about everyone.

I do worry about adding new slotless tokens every year, every time one is add is gets a little tougher to manage a build. More to remember and more to carry. How about something like a Trinket slot with the ability to equip 5 or 7 slotless tokens. This is probably more trouble than it's worth, but just a thought.


That would be problematic for multi year projects like the teeth. They take up as many as 5 of your proposed slots currently.

And then what about gear tokens? Does my silver mirror count? My waterskin? Etc, etc., etc.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

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Final Ultra Rare Images 3 months 3 weeks ago #76

Slots that could easily be added include
Tome (coming), Pouch, and Horn
The problem.is that new players want to fill every slot, even if they forget the ability, so this would raise a problem.
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Last edit: by Wade Schwendemann.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 3 months 3 weeks ago #77

Quivers could always be offhand range slot to help with that particular problem... Though there are already slotless Quivers printed
Last edit: by Endgame.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 3 months 3 weeks ago #78

Harlax wrote:

David Harris wrote: Great job Jeff and community...I really like the set. Seems like there is something for about everyone.

I do worry about adding new slotless tokens every year, every time one is add is gets a little tougher to manage a build. More to remember and more to carry. How about something like a Trinket slot with the ability to equip 5 or 7 slotless tokens. This is probably more trouble than it's worth, but just a thought.


That would be problematic for multi year projects like the teeth. They take up as many as 5 of your proposed slots currently.

And then what about gear tokens? Does my silver mirror count? My waterskin? Etc, etc., etc.


Yeah it definitely creates more problems than it's worth to do something like Trinkets. The previous comment was more of a lament on how slotless items often fell like unchecked power creep. At least with power creep in a slot, it's easy to see when the boundaries are being pushed. But it gets a little more difficult to see the creep when it's very unique slotless items. But who am I to dream crush creativity.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 3 months 3 weeks ago #79

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David Harris wrote:

Harlax wrote:

David Harris wrote: Great job Jeff and community...I really like the set. Seems like there is something for about everyone.

I do worry about adding new slotless tokens every year, every time one is add is gets a little tougher to manage a build. More to remember and more to carry. How about something like a Trinket slot with the ability to equip 5 or 7 slotless tokens. This is probably more trouble than it's worth, but just a thought.


That would be problematic for multi year projects like the teeth. They take up as many as 5 of your proposed slots currently.

And then what about gear tokens? Does my silver mirror count? My waterskin? Etc, etc., etc.


Yeah it definitely creates more problems than it's worth to do something like Trinkets. The previous comment was more of a lament on how slotless items often fell like unchecked power creep. At least with power creep in a slot, it's easy to see when the boundaries are being pushed. But it gets a little more difficult to see the creep when it's very unique slotless items. But who am I to dream crush creativity.


Oh, I understand. I’ve advocated for a limit to the number of slotless items in the past. It’s just hard to do given the way things like the teeth or rod segments are structured.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
Last edit: by Harlax.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 3 months 3 weeks ago #80

Xavon wrote: I still think the Rod of the Meek is going to be more trouble than it is worth, but this is my last lick at that dead horse.

Otherwise, I like the set.


+1 to both statements.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 3 months 3 weeks ago #81

EvilJohn wrote:

Xavon wrote: I still think the Rod of the Meek is going to be more trouble than it is worth, but this is my last lick at that dead horse.

Otherwise, I like the set.


+1 to both statements.

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Final Ultra Rare Images 3 months 3 weeks ago #82

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EvilJohn wrote:

Xavon wrote: I still think the Rod of the Meek is going to be more trouble than it is worth, but this is my last lick at that dead horse.

Otherwise, I like the set.


+1 to both statements.


I’m more than a little bit disturbed by the thought of licking a dead horse. :P
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
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Final Ultra Rare Images 3 months 3 weeks ago #83

David Harris wrote:

Harlax wrote:

David Harris wrote: Great job Jeff and community...I really like the set. Seems like there is something for about everyone.

I do worry about adding new slotless tokens every year, every time one is add is gets a little tougher to manage a build. More to remember and more to carry. How about something like a Trinket slot with the ability to equip 5 or 7 slotless tokens. This is probably more trouble than it's worth, but just a thought.


That would be problematic for multi year projects like the teeth. They take up as many as 5 of your proposed slots currently.

And then what about gear tokens? Does my silver mirror count? My waterskin? Etc, etc., etc.


Yeah it definitely creates more problems than it's worth to do something like Trinkets. The previous comment was more of a lament on how slotless items often fell like unchecked power creep. At least with power creep in a slot, it's easy to see when the boundaries are being pushed. But it gets a little more difficult to see the creep when it's very unique slotless items. But who am I to dream crush creativity.

The most dnd way I've thought to address slotless problems was :

You may carry 10 items without a slot.

Then print "bag of holding : you may carry an unlimited number of slotless items. Accessing any slotless item uses a standard action "

While something like that would be a better balance that what we have now, youd likely never get someone with more than 10 slotless items onboard.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 3 months 3 weeks ago #84

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Endgame wrote: The most dnd way I've thought to address slotless problems was :

You may carry 10 items without a slot.

Then print "bag of holding : you may carry an unlimited number of slotless items. Accessing any slotless item uses a standard action "

While something like that would be a better balance that what we have now, youd likely never get someone with more than 10 slotless items onboard.


You won't even get people on board if you provided "bag of holding" as a common if it is going to take an action to access anything slotless. Want to drink that potion? Cost an action to pull it out of the bag and another to drink it (unless you have means of drinking it as a fee action).
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Last edit: by jedibcg.
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