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TOPIC: Final Ultra Rare Images

Final Ultra Rare Images 1 year 3 weeks ago #121

MasterED wrote: +4 DEX (little less than UR - Transmute 4 Star - Exalted Creeper Necklace)
Ignore 50% incorporeal miss chance (Rare Level - Bead Whole Vision)
Sneak attack with a Ranged Weapon (UR Level - LoVI)
Sneak attack with Bows & Crossbows (little lower than UR Level somewhat like a Transmute - 4 Star)

So adding two Transmute Four Stars together is clearly better than an UR.


I agree that, having added "& Crossbows" to the text, and with the reprint of the +1 Shortbow this year, the token doesn't need the +4 Dex... certainly not for Rogues.
For other classes... I think the Lenses are supposed to be comparable to the Lenses of the Fae, and +1 Dex is a fair trade against losing "No 50% miss on Incorporeal."

I would be happy with it at +2 or +3 Dex, though, if the general feeling is that the trade-off isn't appropriate.
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Last edit: by Raven.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 1 year 3 weeks ago #122

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From a purely selfish standpoint I’d prefer the 4 Dex. But 3 is manageable.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
Last edit: by Harlax.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 1 year 3 weeks ago #123

Raven wrote:

MasterED wrote: +4 DEX (little less than UR - Transmute 4 Star - Exalted Creeper Necklace)
Ignore 50% incorporeal miss chance (Rare Level - Bead Whole Vision)
Sneak attack with a Ranged Weapon (UR Level - LoVI)
Sneak attack with Bows & Crossbows (little lower than UR Level somewhat like a Transmute - 4 Star)

So adding two Transmute Four Stars together is clearly better than an UR.


I agree that, having added "& Crossbows" to the text, and with the reprint of the +1 Shortbow this year, the token doesn't need the +4 Dex... certainly not for Rogues.
For other classes... I think the Lenses are supposed to be comparable to the Lenses of the Fae, and +1 Dex is a fair trade against losing "No 50% miss on Incorporeal."

I would be happy with it at +2 or +3 Dex, though, if the general feeling is that the trade-off isn't appropriate.


If less than +4 dex, I think the trade in becomes a relevant discussion again for LoVI. At +2 and +3, the lenses are clearly better than LoVI but not better enough to justify LoVI owners making the PYP purchase for what amounts to a rare level dex boost. I say leave it at +4. It’s the win win solution for new players and vets and reduces need for a trade in.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 1 year 3 weeks ago #124

Boilerplate wrote:

Raven wrote:

MasterED wrote: +4 DEX (little less than UR - Transmute 4 Star - Exalted Creeper Necklace)
Ignore 50% incorporeal miss chance (Rare Level - Bead Whole Vision)
Sneak attack with a Ranged Weapon (UR Level - LoVI)
Sneak attack with Bows & Crossbows (little lower than UR Level somewhat like a Transmute - 4 Star)

So adding two Transmute Four Stars together is clearly better than an UR.


I agree that, having added "& Crossbows" to the text, and with the reprint of the +1 Shortbow this year, the token doesn't need the +4 Dex... certainly not for Rogues.
For other classes... I think the Lenses are supposed to be comparable to the Lenses of the Fae, and +1 Dex is a fair trade against losing "No 50% miss on Incorporeal."

I would be happy with it at +2 or +3 Dex, though, if the general feeling is that the trade-off isn't appropriate.


If less than +4 dex, I think the trade in becomes a relevant discussion again for LoVI. At +2 and +3, the lenses are clearly better than LoVI but not better enough to justify LoVI owners making the PYP purchase for what amounts to a rare level dex boost. I say leave it at +4. It’s the win win solution for new players and vets and reduces need for a trade in.

+4 is creep without question for everyone in the eye slot. +3 is creep for almost every Rouge (excluding hammer time rogues I guess?) that uses vital insight, but at least doesn't creep eyes for everyone else.

Let's not creep eyes for everyone else.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 1 year 3 weeks ago #125

My initial thought on the Lenses was that +4 Dex was too high. But then I thought, maybe it's ok. Now I'm leaning back to +3. +4 is basically on level with the Eldritch Kilt. I know the Kilt has other benefits and it's a different slot but still, +4 seems awfully good.

In order to make things easier Jeff could always dump it altogether and reprint the LoVI. Or a UR Figurine.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." - Albert Einstein
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Final Ultra Rare Images 1 year 3 weeks ago #126

Rob F wrote: My initial thought on the Lenses was that +4 Dex was too high. But then I thought, maybe it's ok. Now I'm leaning back to +3. +4 is basically on level with the Eldritch Kilt. I know the Kilt has other benefits and it's a different slot but still, +4 seems awfully good.

In order to make things easier Jeff could always dump it altogether and reprint the LoVI. Or a UR Figurine.


At this stage all the rogues that don’t have LoVI would be pretty bummed if it was dumped literally last minute with no debate. I don’t think anyone wants to dump it. My wife is really excited for these lenses.

Honestly the lucky set almost as good as blessed redoubt. And there are plenty of creep to spread around. Taking this away only punishes rogues, especially for a figurine??!
Last edit: by Flik.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 1 year 3 weeks ago #127

Aren't these the final images, it's just for cosmetics/errors at this point, right?

I have to say that I am getting some Rougish delight seeing how the Lenses unfolded being someone who wanted/pushed for the Lenses to stay at the +2 with the LoVI powers where they were 85% of the development time. The crusade "not to obsolete/update" a 2013 Token kerfuffle was a completely, unnecessary and pointless uproar. "Oh no a Rogue can backstab with a missile weapon instead of their Melee weapon, they have to choose which style they attack with!" Would that really have made that big of a difference when you look at it closely? +1 to Hit & +1 AC..... A generous Trade in was always offered to boot, it's the quintessential Picard head slap moment! LOL, Rogue's can still Backstab with Thor's Hammer, so limiting that made no sense either.

It would have not broke the game nor was it a power creep at all, yet it was labeled as such. A lot of Rogues would have lost a point of Dex from trading in the Fae Lenses. The reason to make this better post mess was that the Fae Lenses gave zero incentive to get the really limited version at the time and there were no suitable bows. Jeff & Druegar made the right choice for this forced juncture. We have to live with it now.

Watch what you wish for folks.

Flik wrote: At this stage all the rogues that don’t have LoVI would be pretty bummed if it was dumped literally last minute with no debate. I don’t think anyone wants to dump it. My wife is really excited for these lenses.


+1
It's pretty ridiculous that there is now another last minute effort to kill this on what is supposed to be the Final iteration when it should never have changed two revisions ago.

Time to move on.
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Last edit: by JACKOFTRADZE.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 1 year 3 weeks ago #128

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Welcome to the heartbreak of the token development cycle. Just when you think you are out, they pull you back in.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
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Final Ultra Rare Images 1 year 3 weeks ago #129

Harlax wrote: Welcome to the heartbreak of the token development cycle. Just when you think you are out, they pull you back in.


Seriously - there have been legendaries pulled shortly before this point in design in years past. Not modified, just dropped entirely.

I don't relax until the transmute recipes are posted :).
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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Final Ultra Rare Images 1 year 3 weeks ago #130

JACKOFTRADZE wrote: Aren't these the final images, it's just for cosmetics/errors at this point, right?

I have to say that I am getting some Rougish delight seeing how the Lenses unfolded being someone who wanted/pushed for the Lenses to stay at the +2 with the LoVI powers where they were 85% of the development time. The crusade "not to obsolete/update" a 2013 Token kerfuffle was a completely, unnecessary and pointless uproar. "Oh no a Rogue can backstab with a missile weapon instead of their Melee weapon, they have to choose which style they attack with!" Would that really have made that big of a difference when you look at it closely? +1 to Hit & +1 AC..... A generous Trade in was always offered to boot, it's the quintessential Picard head slap moment! LOL, Rogue's can still Backstab with Thor's Hammer, so limiting that made no sense either.

It would have not broke the game nor was it a power creep at all, yet it was labeled as such. A lot of Rogues would have lost a point of Dex from trading in the Fae Lenses. The reason to make this better post mess was that the Fae Lenses gave zero incentive to get the really limited version at the time and there were no suitable bows. Jeff & Druegar made the right choice for this forced juncture. We have to live with it now.

Watch what you wish for folks.

Flik wrote: At this stage all the rogues that don’t have LoVI would be pretty bummed if it was dumped literally last minute with no debate. I don’t think anyone wants to dump it. My wife is really excited for these lenses.


+1
It's pretty ridiculous that there is now another last minute effort to kill this on what is supposed to be the Final iteration when it should never have changed two revisions ago.

Time to move on.


These could be the final images but I think there have been years where there were Final final final final images. The Ring of Wonder just entered the picture during this discussion. So I dont have a problem recommending a Token change if I think one is warranted.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." - Albert Einstein
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Final Ultra Rare Images 1 year 3 weeks ago #131

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Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote: Welcome to the heartbreak of the token development cycle. Just when you think you are out, they pull you back in.


Seriously - there have been legendaries pulled shortly before this point in design in years past. Not modified, just dropped entirely.

I don't relax until the transmute recipes are posted :).


I don’t relax until they appear in the token store.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
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Final Ultra Rare Images 1 year 3 weeks ago #132

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Harlax wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote: Welcome to the heartbreak of the token development cycle. Just when you think you are out, they pull you back in.


Seriously - there have been legendaries pulled shortly before this point in design in years past. Not modified, just dropped entirely.

I don't relax until the transmute recipes are posted :).


I don’t relax until they appear in the token store.


Relax? What does that mean? :S
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