Long post, sorry. First, background (bold emphasis mine):
Raven wrote:
Flik wrote: Pretty bummed on the change to the lenses. There are only 11 bows ever printed that the rogue can even use, and the uncommon one coming out in this set and last years common bow are the only ones printed since 2014.
I cannot see anyone actually picking this up. A UR that you’ll have to use an uncommon weapon for just to sneak at range. I can’t see that replacing a UR crossbow that I just picked up last year.
Heya Flik - I was the one who suggested a drawback (only useable with Bows) to offset the complaints folks were making that this token is straight-up power creep, and doesn't force any choices.
I think that - while it's not necessarily anyone's Dream Token - it's a pretty decent way to get the Ranged Sneak ability reprinted, after so many folks were asking for a reprint or near-reprint. I do know a lot of Rogues who use a bow... particularly the +1 Mighty ShortBow, which adds their Str to damage. IF it had presented in this form at the beginning of token development (rather than getting people's hopes up for a Power Creep token) I think folks would have been much more receptive, and happy for the chance to get Ranged Sneak back into their build.
Once thing which I didn't register until Boilerplate pointed it out, was that there's no Rare bow this year. I could have sworn I'd seen a Rare Shortbow early in development... but I guess it got dropped. Even so, the +2 Dex on these Lenses mean an extra +1 to hit... which would be the same as a +1 Rare shortbow being used with the old Lenses of Vital Insight. You'd be out 1 pt of damage on the wheel... but still gain the bonus +1AC and Rfx save from the +2 Dex. Not a bad trade-off!
So, yeah - I still think this is a fine UR, with an effect people have been asking for, and forces choices. It would be better with a Rare Shortbow in the set, but those are still very easy to acquire on the secondary market.
Or, if it's really too restrictive - as many folks suggest - change it to Shortbows *AND* Crossbows.
That still forces choices for the Hammer Rogues... and honestly, that's a good place to present a choice.
Either way - I'm really glad the name changed. Thanks, Jeff!
and then, from the last revision thread:
Raven wrote: Re: Lenses of Seer Sight
I agree with the many voiced comments that this token is strictly better than Lenses of Vital Insight. With all the conversation around Power Creep, it surprises me that they were not toned down, but I thought, “okay, maybe it’s supposed to be better to drive sales.” ... and then I saw Jeff’s comment that he would allow a trade-in... so that’s clearly not it. It’s just a reprint with a little extra to make it not an exact duplicate.
What if it had a small drawback to offset the bonus Dex?
Like “Rogue May sneak attack with Bows” (Instead of “Ranged Weapon”)
That gives it flavour which Vital Insight doesn’t have, and forces a choice for those Rogues who use daggers or hammers or crossbows... AND leaves design space for making a cool Lenses token down the road which adds Ranged Sneak to a different weapon type.
...
I did consider the Assassin’s Crossbow specifically when suggesting the Seer Sight Lenses work with Bows.
1) this year has no crossbows in the set... but it does have a Short Bow in the uncommon offerings.
2) the bow is the most common kind of ranged weapon for casual players to use, available across many years
3)
The Assassins Crossbow came out a while back, so anyone whose heart is set on using it for Sneak Attack has probably had a chance to hunt down Lenses of Vital Insight already.
4) If they haven’t managed to acquire Vital Insight yet, they are likely to find more copies available next year as folks who use a Bow for Ranged attacks swap out to the “better” Seer Sight Lenses, and sell the older Lenses on the secondary market.
5) It gives the Crossbow-using Rogues at least a year to think up & lobby for a better name that “Seer Sight”
My Thoughts
Alright. So Raven, you're contradicting yourself here. The mighty shortbow was printed in 2010. Lenses of Vital Insight was printed in 2013. The Assassin's Crossbow was printed in 2015. The Since TD has expanded in the past decade, it is a safe assumption (imo) that the number of Assassin's crossbows is greater than the number of vital insight, which in turn is greater than the number of mighty shortbows. Add in last year's Stunning crossbow, and the UR crossbows are going to be way more prevalent than shortbows.
Honestly, it sounds very much like a slap in the face for rogues. You want to sneak attack at ranged? Ok, buy this UR token, then go track down old bows, the last rare was in 2014. Even if a rare shortbow was added to this set, telling a player to find a rare, make the whetstone, then it's "almost, but not really" good, but nowhere near the same power level as the "vets' tokens" leaves a very poor taste in my mouth.
Solutions:
1) Reprint Lenses of Vital Insight
2) Have +2 Dex (unless rogue). Rogue may sneak attack at range.
3) Change restriction to crossbows
4) remove restictions
5) restrict to non-thrown weapons (could even include mighty in this category)