Mike Steele wrote:
OrionW wrote:
Beertram wrote:
OrionW wrote:
jpotter wrote: The druid legendary is also awesome. Beertram was just wrecking things with it. Definitely heard a DM or two give some "wow"s after calculating his damage on certain things after factoring in the extra damage from shape-shifting appropriately. (EDIT: Beertram informed me he was only using the RELIC - jeeeeeez)
First there is very little difference in damage between the Druid legendary and relic. Second you keep bringing up this Druid build as justification for OP legendaries and I would ask that you stop. As someone that has transmuted the Druid legendary and used it at Orgins, I can tell you that your posts are wrong. Either have Beertram post his own thoughts, or at least show us some damage calculations to support your perceived balance between items.
Are you looking to trade that lousy under-powered legendary???
My build with the relic has me at +17 to hit, +31 damage while polymorphed. And with Iktomi's it would only go up to +18/+32 or +17/+33 depending on which current shirt I swap in. So am I the greatest damage dealer out there? No, but I am also +16 on heal spells and +18 on damage spells. So the druid can fill a lot of roles. I like the druid relic & legendary because I like the flavor of it. It is fun to play. I don't care if another class is doing more melee damage. Some should do more than the druid.
Maybe Iktomi's should have added some focus, and yes, it is not that much more powerful than the relic, but that is mostly because the druid relic ended up being more powerful than originally intended.
I still want the legendary to use polymorph potions without losing them (I have a good collection of them) and to free up my shirt slot -- just in case a nice shirt comes around in the next few years...
I am not looking at trading off the legendary, as it does have some upsides. I had +30 polymorph damage at Origins so our builds are likely very similar and I think our experience was likely similar. I am also not looking to do as much damage as a pure damage class. With all of that said though the design space for these tokens needs to be closer in scope. Currently the Barbarian legendary along with a x3 crit weapon is going to allow them to do as much damage in one round as a melee Druid is going to do in the entire combat. That seems a bit crazy.
Agreed, there needs to be some balance. We have some great analysts in the group, it would be great if we could get a comparison of the max class damage incorporating these tokens and the previous Class Legendary tokens. I know that's not the entire comparison because some do lots of non-Damage stuff also, but it would help. It's too late to balance the tokens after the designs are finalized and sent to the printer.
I think doing max damage comparisons when there are lots of things that dont directly affect it, and allow for other things like versatility and build options, is fraught with peril.
If we do this, I suspect, as you all do, that Druids will be behind Barbarian, Monk, Ranger (though the ranger doesnt need the legendary for that). The Druid might be ahead of Paladin, who isnt getting any additional strength or damage from their legendary, and may or may not be ahead of rogue, depending.
My point is, if we do this and see that Druid is 4th of 7, does that mean we need to nerf the legendaries back to the point where druid is 3rd? 2nd?
I dont get why this analysis is necessary.
I do get that we need to make sure that one class doesnt completely make other classes irrelevant.
Anyhow, I'm not a stats guy, so I wont be doing the analysis. My sense is
Monk
Barbarian
Ranger
Rogue
Druid
Paladin
Bard
I'm ok with that, and maybe Rogue and Ranger are swapped, depending on on how we count sneak attack