OrionW wrote: (1st) This comparison is with the Ranger token, which of the bunch is likely the only one that needs a bit of love. I say this because I don't think they can keep up in ranged damage with a Rogue which feels wrong.
It's a new world. Rogues can sneak attack for a ton at the top tier of play. I don't think there is anything in the PHB that says Rangers - whether melee or ranged - must dish out more damage than a Rogue. I'm not sure how to respond to - "it feels wrong"
Yes. I was comparing Iktomi's to the Ranger Token. I was responding to Mike-
Mike Steele wrote:
I'm not in agreement that the Ranger legendary is underwhelming, I think it's more powerful than the previous class Legendaries. I think the Legendaries this year need to be scaled back to the power level of last year.
Mike is concerned with a gap in power between this year's legendaries and he thinks the 2020s need to be scaled back. I set out to show actual numbers that the Druid legendary is better than he is giving it credit for. Certainly if you compare one specific 2020 legendary to the Druid legendary of 2019
Others have already stated that no matter what - someone is going to end up with the 10th best class legendary. There's at least some truth to that. If Ralson's is printed as proposed, I feel that Druid and Ranger will be closer to the back of the pack than the front. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
OrionW wrote: (2nd) Any comparison should include the Ranger having Io's which has a better damage wheel than the Druid has access to.
If you want to talk about stacking Io's with Ralson's, then what about stacking Drue's with Iktomi's? That's +5 damage to healing, Polymorph, and spell damage.
Individuals shouldn't choose to play Druid if they want to be the top DPS at the combat table. However, if he/she likes healing, slinging spells (+ surging one), and turning into elementals, then Druid is a good choice and the Legendary is an awesome token.
Oh yeah, and a Druid with Iktomi's also gets to turn into a Spider, Scrael, Gremlin, Snake, Bear, Brownie, Lemure, or Otter. Those could have real utility in puzzle rooms. Most of the other class legendaries have 0 effect outside of combat.
OrionW wrote: (3rd) Druid's only get to use one form in combat. Being in the form that grants extra damage or has the correct resistance is not a given unless the Druid wants to wait to polymorph until after the first round of combat.
OrionW wrote: (4th) The Druid's DR and damage types are matched, and you likely can't use both in the same combat.
I never once suggested that you could take advantage of both. I clearly laid them out as separate benefits. The fact is that if you have a good understanding of D&D monster types, you can try and game the system. If you want to wait for damage confirmation / a lore check to get a sure thing, you can.
I think the better argument for "Iktomi's sucks" is that there will be monsters where none of the 4 types is relevant (which I also pointed out earlier). It doesn't diminish the fact that Iktomi's does give a ton of flexibility, albeit not as much as if you could change into different forms within the same room.
OrionW wrote: You can make an argument that Ranger's need a better item, because they are behind the power curve and I would likely agree with you. I just don't see the proposed Ranger item and the Druid item from last year as being similar in power. The Druid item is just inherently more limiting.
Dude- melee rangers are saying that Ralson's is just as limiting as the Druid item. They don't even get to stack Focus items like Druids do. If Polymorph doesn't work out, the Druid can just go back to human form and throw focus-stacked spells at the monster with 0 opportunity cost.
I'm not opposed to bringing the Monk and Barbarian legendaries back down from the stratosphere.
BUT
The average damage on Iktomi's is higher than Ava's. Hell, it's higher than Welfor's and has a higher max damage than both of those legendaries. If you're going to argue that Iktomi's is worse than Ava's and Ralson's by a country mile, you're going to have to do better.