TOPIC: 2020 Transmuted Token Images

So I have been mostly quiet for a while but I wanted to chime in on how I would setup the Monk legendary since it is my main class (if there is such a thing)

Necklace of the Spirit Drake:

• +3 sacred damage to FoB
• If both pucks hit can invoke Stunning Fist
• FoB at range

Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace

• +5 sacred damage to FoB
• If both pucks hit can invoke Stunning Fist
• FoB at range
• Grants PT-7 psychic power
• Dual 20's Autokill

Here is my rational. Relic at +3 damage, IF both hit keeps it in line with the Barbarian at +6 damage. Ranged attacks with FoB is something every Monk desires and the Gloves should be reprinted eventually so just include it (and IF it was put in the UR this year I would actually move it to the Legendary and not include it on the Relic). On the Stunning Fist I don't want the Monk to stun a monster more than once in a combat. Very thematic that two good placed shots would stun the monster.

Legendary notes (adds damage, auto kill, and PT-7)
PT-7 is Negate 10 points of Cold, Fire, Shock, or Sonic damage (once) - very similar to a traditional D&D Monk but in the grand things not a legendary power
+2 more sacred damage - again if the Monk hits twice then it does the same damage as Barbarian
Dual 20's auto kill - this rarely going to happen but is cool effect and you bet would generate cool stories about the time the Monk killed the Beholder.

Actually as I write this I realize the Legendary isn't as a good step up from Relic so I am even more for removing Ranged FoB from the Relic.

Ed

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I'll rejoice when they tell me if guard stacks or not.

You are not likely to get that answer until the powers are solid. I am glad to see that almost everyone agrees the +1 Guard should be on the class tokens. It will just become a stacking question.

Ed

MasterED wrote: So I have been mostly quiet for a while but I wanted to chime in on how I would setup the Monk legendary since it is my main class (if there is such a thing)

Necklace of the Spirit Drake:

• +3 sacred damage to FoB
• If both pucks hit can invoke Stunning Fist
• FoB at range

Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace

• +5 sacred damage to FoB
• If both pucks hit can invoke Stunning Fist
• FoB at range
• Grants PT-7 psychic power
• Dual 20's Autokill

Here is my rational. Relic at +3 damage, IF both hit keeps it in line with the Barbarian at +6 damage. Ranged attacks with FoB is something every Monk desires and the Gloves should be reprinted eventually so just include it (and IF it was put in the UR this year I would actually move it to the Legendary and not include it on the Relic). On the Stunning Fist I don't want the Monk to stun a monster more than once in a combat. Very thematic that two good placed shots would stun the monster.

Legendary notes (adds damage, auto kill, and PT-7)
PT-7 is Negate 10 points of Cold, Fire, Shock, or Sonic damage (once) - very similar to a traditional D&D Monk but in the grand things not a legendary power
+2 more sacred damage - again if the Monk hits twice then it does the same damage as Barbarian
Dual 20's auto kill - this rarely going to happen but is cool effect and you bet would generate cool stories about the time the Monk killed the Beholder.

Actually as I write this I realize the Legendary isn't as a good step up from Relic so I am even more for removing Ranged FoB from the Relic.

Ed

Once you add Gloves of Flying Fist to the Relic, you can immediately add in more damage from Str gloves as well, so keep that in mind.

Should the relic have Shurikens return, or is that fine on the ring (IE, monks would buy 2 rings, one to transmute one to wear)?

I'm a little concerned about stunning happening every combat round 1. What about changing all these stun abilities to monk always hits on value X or higher? Such as, monk always hits on 16-20? I know this doesn't mean a lot given the low AC of monsters currently seen in Nightmare, but maybe petition to make those monsters AC 40+ at the same time as this gets published

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I'll rejoice when they tell me if guard stacks or not.

My opinion:
Wording of +1 to Guard indicates stacking. If stacking is not intended, should be something like "may Guard 2nd ally".

Similar to how non-stacking slot expanders like Gloves of Glory word with the new limit and stackable expanders like Charm Bracelet just say the increase.

Endgame wrote: I'm a little concerned about stunning happening every combat round 1. What about changing all these stun abilities to monk always hits on value X or higher? Such as, monk always hits on 16-20? I know this doesn't mean a lot given the low AC of monsters currently seen in Nightmare, but maybe petition to make those monsters AC 40+ at the same time as this gets published

That seems to make sense. When I think about it I am assuming the Monk is playing an appropriate difficulty level. If an Epic geared Monks is playing Normal they still would only get to stun the monster once in a room. If they are playing on Epic level I would expect them to have to slide 15+ to hit anyways.

Note my guess is Epic level monsters are very near 40 AC but your mileage may vary.

Endgame wrote: Once you add Gloves of Flying Fist to the Relic, you can immediately add in more damage from Str gloves as well, so keep that in mind.

Agree. That does need to be considered.

Endgame wrote: Should the relic have Shurikens return, or is that fine on the ring (IE, monks would buy 2 rings, one to transmute one to wear)?

If the Relic and Legendary have GoFF effect, there is no reason for the Monk to care about shurikens. They may still want the ring for damage bonus though.

Endgame wrote: I'm a little concerned about stunning happening every combat round 1. What about changing all these stun abilities to monk always hits on value X or higher? Such as, monk always hits on 16-20? I know this doesn't mean a lot given the low AC of monsters currently seen in Nightmare, but maybe petition to make those monsters AC 40+ at the same time as this gets published

Shhhh! That's another thing I was planning to suggest for the Fighters next year.

I do agree that stunning needs to not be too common. I'm not sure whether having both pucks hit is easier or harder than the current planned 16-20 though. Probably depends a lot on other bonuses and slide ability.

It seems odd that there has been such strong opposition to having a UR permanent token incorporate the Potion of Leaping ability (and tokens that have incorporated it have been rendered nearly useless by usage limitations), but there doesn't seem to be any issue with the Monks getting a more powerful attack at ranged ability. How is it fine for the Monks to have that ability but overpowered for other classes to have a more limited PoL ability? I'd think if anything Monks should be the most broken class to have that ability since they have the highest melee damage. Doesn't this give Monks the best Melee AND Ranged damage?

MasterED wrote:

Endgame wrote: I'm a little concerned about stunning happening every combat round 1. What about changing all these stun abilities to monk always hits on value X or higher? Such as, monk always hits on 16-20? I know this doesn't mean a lot given the low AC of monsters currently seen in Nightmare, but maybe petition to make those monsters AC 40+ at the same time as this gets published

That seems to make sense. When I think about it I am assuming the Monk is playing an appropriate difficulty level. If an Epic geared Monks is playing Normal they still would only get to stun the monster once in a room. If they are playing on Epic level I would expect them to have to slide 15+ to hit anyways.

Note my guess is Epic level monsters are very near 40 AC but your mileage may vary.

Just making a quick modification to my BiS monk build to account for losing the neck slot, but gaining gloves of the brute, I'm seeing +24 to hit. After Bard and Cleric support, I expect around +30 to hit, meaning you would need 10s on both pucks for ac 40 monsters, which to me seems likely to stun round one.

Mike Steele wrote: It seems odd that there has been such strong opposition to having a UR permanent token incorporate the Potion of Leaping ability (and tokens that have incorporated it have been rendered nearly useless by usage limitations), but there doesn't seem to be any issue with the Monks getting a more powerful attack at ranged ability. How is it fine for the Monks to have that ability but overpowered for other classes to have a more limited PoL ability? I'd think if anything Monks should be the most broken class to have that ability since they have the highest melee damage. Doesn't this give Monks the best Melee AND Ranged damage?

I suppose if I were a monk, I'd be upset with a half-baked solution of my legendary incorporating the essence of one of my abilities, but not to its full potential. I'm speaking directly to returning shurikens vs. GoFF.

The ability is absolutely amazing, though, and I think it should be the hallmark of the legendary. The way the monk relic and legendary progressed through the design process made it feel much more tacked on. I don't know why that wasn't the center of its design from the start.

The expanded stun is what concerns me the most with where the Monk transmutes have landed. Increasing their damage is in line with what's happening across the board in concern to all the legendaries. Increasing the likelihood to stun could be troublesome.

But at the same time, I'm not going to worry about it too much. These transmutes hopefully won't show up in PUGs. They will be for all-out epic leveled monks. Those monks should be playing at the highest levels of difficulty. I hope that landing stuns at epic levels of play elicits cheers and relief from the group, as it's close to becoming a matter of life and TPK.

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: It seems odd that there has been such strong opposition to having a UR permanent token incorporate the Potion of Leaping ability (and tokens that have incorporated it have been rendered nearly useless by usage limitations), but there doesn't seem to be any issue with the Monks getting a more powerful attack at ranged ability. How is it fine for the Monks to have that ability but overpowered for other classes to have a more limited PoL ability? I'd think if anything Monks should be the most broken class to have that ability since they have the highest melee damage. Doesn't this give Monks the best Melee AND Ranged damage?

I suppose if I were a monk, I'd be upset with a half-baked solution of my legendary incorporating the essence of one of my abilities, but not to its full potential. I'm speaking directly to returning shurikens vs. GoFF.

The ability is absolutely amazing, though, and I think it should be the hallmark of the legendary. The way the monk relic and legendary progressed through the design process made it feel much more tacked on. I don't know why that wasn't the center of its design from the start.

The expanded stun is what concerns me the most with where the Monk transmutes have landed. Increasing their damage is in line with what's happening across in concern to all the legionaries. Increasing the likelihood to stun could be troublesome.

But at the same time, I'm not going to worry about it too much. These transmutes hopefully won't show up in PUGs. They will be for all-out epic leveled monks. Those monks should be playing at the highest levels. I hope that landing stuns at epic levels of play elicits cheers and relief from the group, as it's close to becoming a matter of life and TPK.

I agree it's an amazing ability, it also seems completely broken to me to give the class with the highest melee damage the ability to use their melee to hit and damage bonuses for ranged attacks. It was bad enough that it was a UR ability, it seems even worse to make just one of many abilities of the Legendary.

And again, if this is OK, what is the problem of a UR incorporating Potion of Leaping ability? If that's too overpowered to print, this is even more overpowered.

Fiddy wrote:

Endgame wrote: Should the relic have Shurikens return, or is that fine on the ring (IE, monks would buy 2 rings, one to transmute one to wear)?

If the Relic and Legendary have GoFF effect, there is no reason for the Monk to care about shurikens. They may still want the ring for damage bonus though.

I was actually thinking the relic could maintain the returning shurikens and only the legendary get the GotFF effect.

That said, the ring is so amazingly good for monk that I could see that there is no need to add returning shurikens to the relic because the monk will be wearing the ring anyway.

Mike Steele wrote: And again, if this is OK, what is the problem of a UR incorporating Potion of Leaping ability? If that's too overpowered to print, this is even more overpowered.

Where are you getting the idea that your proposed token is too powerful?

Also, maybe your proposed token should be a relic or legendary in itself.

If the argument is that GotFF are very, very good, and maybe shouldnt have been printed, sure. I can't argue with that.