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TOPIC: 2020 Ultra Rare Token Images

2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 4 years 9 months ago #49

So.... the Rod of the Meek can't even be used to full effect by a level 4:

Barbarian, Drwarf Fighter, Fighter

Who are otherwise straight out of the bathtub?

Each of those classes innate bonuses plus the +3 on the Rod take their to-hit to over +5.

I love this token, but I just don't understand what the secondary limits beyond STR max of 18 help with. They box it in and remove a fun puzzle element. This token will never be part of a BiS melee build. But it might be a fun RP quest to see how good you can make it: Melvin the Meek who is at +8 / +17 or whatever after having scoured the world for unloved URs like Gloves of Weapon Finesse and Celestial Girdle.

By limiting on more than just max STR the puzzle/quest element of this token goes away and it becomes so bad that several au naturale level 4 characters are already being limited.
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 4 years 9 months ago #50

jpotter wrote:

Ro-gan wrote:
Has it been said yet if the transmuted Teeth will work with the Skull??


Jeff has confirmed they do not. You only get hps for individual teeth. So the completed Cavaties of Cavadar will not give you 7hps.


Was it clarified if you can outfit individual teeth and the Transmuted Tooth at the same time? I suggested all the multi-year transmutes be treated like the Ro7P in that they don't, but I don't think that happened.
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 4 years 9 months ago #51

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Matthew Hayward wrote:

Picc wrote: Could we maybe consider switching the powers of the Arcane Braclets & Earcuff. That would in effect cause them to become functional reprints of orbits and charm bracelets (people could still get more ioun slots by equipping arcane earing & orbits if they wanted but it might slow down the slot creep a little).


I'm not sure what you're aiming at, but if you swap them then here's what's available in ears or wrists:

+4 Ioun and +2 charm.

If you don't swap them here's what's available:

+2 to one of Ioun and Charm and +4 to the other.

I like the second option as it's more flexible.

If you're trying to keep down the total power level of the game I agree that less options are less powerful.


Yes, keeping them more similar to the tokens we have already slows down the over all power creep but still serves the purpose of letting people catch up. As you put it in another post this years set is a bonanza, that's great for us. Less great for the people who join later and are constantly being told you NEED X from 2020 in order to have a competitive BIS build.

Also I'm starting to think new people will never be able to catch up. So long as the reprinted staples keep changing just enough those of us who have the originals are still ahead because we have the option to go either way or to stack.

Honestly at this point I really like this set, even though it's making me regret some of my most recent pyps, but I feel like it may have failed its stated design goal of helping people catch up. And dont kid yourself this is going to be the new bench mark people compare against when 2021 design happens. There are UR+6 damage bracers, so +4 damage seems right for a rare, the old +2 just doesnt reflect the current state of the game. I dont agree but someone is going to say it.
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 4 years 9 months ago #52

Picc wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Picc wrote: Could we maybe consider switching the powers of the Arcane Braclets & Earcuff. That would in effect cause them to become functional reprints of orbits and charm bracelets (people could still get more ioun slots by equipping arcane earing & orbits if they wanted but it might slow down the slot creep a little).


I'm not sure what you're aiming at, but if you swap them then here's what's available in ears or wrists:

+4 Ioun and +2 charm.

If you don't swap them here's what's available:

+2 to one of Ioun and Charm and +4 to the other.

I like the second option as it's more flexible.

If you're trying to keep down the total power level of the game I agree that less options are less powerful.


Yes, keeping them more similar to the tokens we have already slows down the over all power creep but still serves the purpose of letting people catch up. As you put it in another post this years set is a bonanza, that's great for us. Less great for the people who join later and are constantly being told you NEED X from 2020 in order to have a competitive BIS build.

Also I'm starting to think new people will never be able to catch up. So long as the reprinted staples keep changing just enough those of us who have the originals are still ahead because we have the option to go either way or to stack.

Honestly at this point I really like this set, even though it's making me regret some of my most recent pyps, but I feel like it may have failed its stated design goal of helping people catch up. And dont kid yourself this is going to be the new bench mark people compare against when 2021 design happens. There are UR+6 damage bracers, so +4 damage seems right for a rare, the old +2 just doesnt reflect the current state of the game. I dont agree but someone is going to say it.


I don’t know that the goal was catch up. I believe the phase was new player friendly.
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 4 years 9 months ago #53

Matthew Hayward wrote: So.... the Rod of the Meek can't even be used to full effect by a level 4:

Barbarian, Drwarf Fighter, Fighter

Who are otherwise straight out of the bathtub?

Each of those classes innate bonuses plus the +3 on the Rod take their to-hit to over +5.

I love this token, but I just don't understand what the secondary limits beyond STR max of 18 help with. They box it in and remove a fun puzzle element. This token will never be part of a BiS melee build. But it might be a fun RP quest to see how good you can make it: Melvin the Meek who is at +8 / +17 or whatever after having scoured the world for unloved URs like Gloves of Weapon Finesse and Celestial Girdle.

By limiting on more than just max STR the puzzle/quest element of this token goes away and it becomes so bad that several au naturale level 4 characters are already being limited.


+1
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 4 years 9 months ago #54

Harlax wrote:

Picc wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Picc wrote: Could we maybe consider switching the powers of the Arcane Braclets & Earcuff. That would in effect cause them to become functional reprints of orbits and charm bracelets (people could still get more ioun slots by equipping arcane earing & orbits if they wanted but it might slow down the slot creep a little).


I'm not sure what you're aiming at, but if you swap them then here's what's available in ears or wrists:

+4 Ioun and +2 charm.

If you don't swap them here's what's available:

+2 to one of Ioun and Charm and +4 to the other.

I like the second option as it's more flexible.

If you're trying to keep down the total power level of the game I agree that less options are less powerful.


Yes, keeping them more similar to the tokens we have already slows down the over all power creep but still serves the purpose of letting people catch up. As you put it in another post this years set is a bonanza, that's great for us. Less great for the people who join later and are constantly being told you NEED X from 2020 in order to have a competitive BIS build.

Also I'm starting to think new people will never be able to catch up. So long as the reprinted staples keep changing just enough those of us who have the originals are still ahead because we have the option to go either way or to stack.

Honestly at this point I really like this set, even though it's making me regret some of my most recent pyps, but I feel like it may have failed its stated design goal of helping people catch up. And dont kid yourself this is going to be the new bench mark people compare against when 2021 design happens. There are UR+6 damage bracers, so +4 damage seems right for a rare, the old +2 just doesnt reflect the current state of the game. I dont agree but someone is going to say it.


I don’t know that the goal was catch up. I believe the phase was new player friendly.


Exactly. Cook's Hat is a great new player friendly token, but it doesn't let them catch up to BIS builds.
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 4 years 9 months ago #55

Matthew Hayward wrote: So.... the Rod of the Meek can't even be used to full effect by a level 4:

Barbarian, Drwarf Fighter, Fighter

Who are otherwise straight out of the bathtub?

Each of those classes innate bonuses plus the +3 on the Rod take their to-hit to over +5.

I love this token, but I just don't understand what the secondary limits beyond STR max of 18 help with. They box it in and remove a fun puzzle element. This token will never be part of a BiS melee build. But it might be a fun RP quest to see how good you can make it: Melvin the Meek who is at +8 / +17 or whatever after having scoured the world for unloved URs like Gloves of Weapon Finesse and Celestial Girdle.

By limiting on more than just max STR the puzzle/quest element of this token goes away and it becomes so bad that several au naturale level 4 characters are already being limited.


I believe the extra limit was set to avoid it being too powerful for an UR, but i think those limits were meant 'before equipping this'. But either way, i do agree that it is much more interesting to allow non-STR boosters. It just becomes a question of game balance, especially since a good way to offer alternate options vs STR items is all to-hit vs all damage items. On the bright side, even if it becomes OP, that only means players got a relic level weapon in UR by equipping a whole pile of other specific items.
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 4 years 9 months ago #56

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Picc wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Picc wrote: Could we maybe consider switching the powers of the Arcane Braclets & Earcuff. That would in effect cause them to become functional reprints of orbits and charm bracelets (people could still get more ioun slots by equipping arcane earing & orbits if they wanted but it might slow down the slot creep a little).


I'm not sure what you're aiming at, but if you swap them then here's what's available in ears or wrists:

+4 Ioun and +2 charm.

If you don't swap them here's what's available:

+2 to one of Ioun and Charm and +4 to the other.

I like the second option as it's more flexible.

If you're trying to keep down the total power level of the game I agree that less options are less powerful.


Yes, keeping them more similar to the tokens we have already slows down the over all power creep but still serves the purpose of letting people catch up. As you put it in another post this years set is a bonanza, that's great for us. Less great for the people who join later and are constantly being told you NEED X from 2020 in order to have a competitive BIS build.

Also I'm starting to think new people will never be able to catch up. So long as the reprinted staples keep changing just enough those of us who have the originals are still ahead because we have the option to go either way or to stack.

Honestly at this point I really like this set, even though it's making me regret some of my most recent pyps, but I feel like it may have failed its stated design goal of helping people catch up. And dont kid yourself this is going to be the new bench mark people compare against when 2021 design happens. There are UR+6 damage bracers, so +4 damage seems right for a rare, the old +2 just doesnt reflect the current state of the game. I dont agree but someone is going to say it.


I don’t know that the goal was catch up. I believe the phase was new player friendly.


Exactly. Cook's Hat is a great new player friendly token, but it doesn't let them catch up to BIS builds.


I think that came about of a “let’s get all classes on that level bonus” which is in one token really hard without making it relic level, precedence a la Heroism, charm or ring. All except monk/wizard can be done easily as an armor set bonus, that leaves some real hurt on the monks and wizards though. The next question if you’re going down that road though is do you make a buckler and a shield, two types of armor, and a hat? It’s still not all classes but it could be all but 3, and it’s 5 tokens out of the set now. If it is a two piece bonus, the hat can be discarded, but that was something like hat of the hallway that could be worn by all. If it’s three two more items, good for both monk and wizard need to be added, the monk ring actually comes to mind but it is already going to be auto include I think and that would change the news from good to unknown. Again two items for a 1 level bonus from good items seems unprecedented as might was three items. Yes I just said mint items are good items. That said this could be the new player friendly version of might, two good items are enough.

Cooks hat, even lucky cooks hat, is a lot. Honestly the level bonus in one year for all is a lot. Might came out piece by piece for how many years with some reprint I think. Maybe young Jeff had a good idea. Otherwise we may need to be okay with not getting everyone a level in the same year if we are going to try to make BIS new player friendly tokens and not move the curve.

I like cooks hat, it’s not perfect, it takes two slots and prevents ioun slot expanders, but I don’t have those already, and I usually have two ioun stones that I’m just like “what am I doing here” that I can fix for a few characters, none is an answer. Will it get me to nightmare no, I have been but I’m missing so much clearly after that run. It will get me to hardcore. Not by itself, but that is still the step I am looking for.
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 4 years 9 months ago #57

I'm fairly ok with the set as is. For comparison against others, my max Ranger will need 3 of these PYPs, maybe four. I need both charms for sure as I've been without Brooching for a while and I'd love to wear a third ring.

I also need the UR to craft the Ranger legendary.

Maybes for me: Ioun Stone for ranged attacks if I have room. Maybe Earcuff for more Charms if it stacks with Charm bracelet.
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 4 years 9 months ago #58

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Jeff321 wrote:

Flik wrote:

Matt Goodman wrote: The barbarian bracers should probably have 2H weapons only.


I’m inclined to agree, otherwise they become BIS for all melee classes? Maybe not for ranged ranger or most rogues that actually want to sneak attack.


Agreed


Also agree


Also agree.

Alternatively, just limit it to: Barbarian, Fighters, Paladin.

Another agreement from me and class limiting would also work.
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 4 years 9 months ago #59

OrionW wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: So.... the Rod of the Meek can't even be used to full effect by a level 4:

Barbarian, Drwarf Fighter, Fighter

Who are otherwise straight out of the bathtub?

Each of those classes innate bonuses plus the +3 on the Rod take their to-hit to over +5.

I love this token, but I just don't understand what the secondary limits beyond STR max of 18 help with. They box it in and remove a fun puzzle element. This token will never be part of a BiS melee build. But it might be a fun RP quest to see how good you can make it: Melvin the Meek who is at +8 / +17 or whatever after having scoured the world for unloved URs like Gloves of Weapon Finesse and Celestial Girdle.

By limiting on more than just max STR the puzzle/quest element of this token goes away and it becomes so bad that several au naturale level 4 characters are already being limited.


+1


+2 I don’t see how more hindrances on this item are necessary beyond the Strength cap. If a new player pulls this it can make for a fun attempt at building your character around its specific requirements.
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 4 years 9 months ago #60

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Charm of glory is really interesting other wise meh on most of the changes the skull is a maybe for me nothing else besides the charm of broaching interests me.
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