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TOPIC: 2020 Ultra Rare Token Images

2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 3 years 4 months ago #109

Matthew Hayward wrote: If you look around you will see that indeed there are new players collecting, quite a few. Now - they might have started playing in 2018 and taken a few years to get here, but these are the new players I assume we're talking about. Not literal 'I've never played True Dungeon before and it's Gameholecone 2020.'

If you look at the people who ran 8k forum auctions this last year, there are quite a few new people doing that compared to the past.


This is me. Well, almost. I started playing TD in 2011, but I didn't drop serious money on it until about 2 years ago. I wish now I had waited until the 2020 set for some things though :/
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 3 years 4 months ago #110

Matthew Hayward wrote: If you look around you will see that indeed there are new players collecting, quite a few. Now - they might have started playing in 2018 and taken a few years to get here, but these are the new players I assume we're talking about. Not literal 'I've never played True Dungeon before and it's Gameholecone 2020.'

If you look at the people who ran 8k forum auctions this last year, there are quite a few new people doing that compared to the past.


Cheers to that. This August will be my first year anniversary of playing TD and I've already run one 8k auction and very well might do another before the year is out. XD
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 3 years 4 months ago #111

Mike Steele wrote:

James J Krot wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: This table shows the odds of a Monk stunning a monster with their 16-20 stun range in the first or second round of combat, assuming they are X% likely to hit on each puck:

Odds of      Odds of 
Scoring 16+  Stunning in 
Per Puck     Round 1 or 2
10%          34%
20%          59%
30%          76%
40%          87%
50%          94%
60%          97%
70%          99%
80%          99.8%
90%          99.99%

It seems to me that we're going to see a stunned monster in round 1 or 2 at least two thirds of the time with this token.

To stun the monster 1/2 the time on round 1 or 2 you'd want the odds of a single puck stunning the monster to be around 16%.

I might shrink this range to 18-20 (but I don't know how often the stun is desired to be triggered, or how common non-stunnable monsters are).


Stun locking a monster is already a think the rosp character can already do that with a spell, with cleric helping I think we could keep something stunned for 8 rounds with the right build.


For the long-term viability of the game, it seems like enabling the party to lock down the monster in stuns so that it never gets an attack in is a pretty bad idea. Some of the stuff like this enabled by these new tokens seems a lot more unbalancing to the game than the two tokens which were nerfed last year for being unbalanced.


Perhaps,
It’s an precursor for having many multiple monsters in each room so, you might stun one but there are 4 others to deal with.....
Please visit my fledgling token store.
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247486
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 3 years 4 months ago #112

Bob Chasan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

James J Krot wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: This table shows the odds of a Monk stunning a monster with their 16-20 stun range in the first or second round of combat, assuming they are X% likely to hit on each puck:

Odds of      Odds of 
Scoring 16+  Stunning in 
Per Puck     Round 1 or 2
10%          34%
20%          59%
30%          76%
40%          87%
50%          94%
60%          97%
70%          99%
80%          99.8%
90%          99.99%

It seems to me that we're going to see a stunned monster in round 1 or 2 at least two thirds of the time with this token.

To stun the monster 1/2 the time on round 1 or 2 you'd want the odds of a single puck stunning the monster to be around 16%.

I might shrink this range to 18-20 (but I don't know how often the stun is desired to be triggered, or how common non-stunnable monsters are).


Stun locking a monster is already a think the rosp character can already do that with a spell, with cleric helping I think we could keep something stunned for 8 rounds with the right build.


For the long-term viability of the game, it seems like enabling the party to lock down the monster in stuns so that it never gets an attack in is a pretty bad idea. Some of the stuff like this enabled by these new tokens seems a lot more unbalancing to the game than the two tokens which were nerfed last year for being unbalanced.


Perhaps,
It’s an precursor for having many multiple monsters in each room so, you might stun one but there are 4 others to deal with.....


Which would be awesome, as wizards and their AoE could really shine!
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 3 years 4 months ago #113

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

James J Krot wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: This table shows the odds of a Monk stunning a monster with their 16-20 stun range in the first or second round of combat, assuming they are X% likely to hit on each puck:

Odds of      Odds of 
Scoring 16+  Stunning in 
Per Puck     Round 1 or 2
10%          34%
20%          59%
30%          76%
40%          87%
50%          94%
60%          97%
70%          99%
80%          99.8%
90%          99.99%

It seems to me that we're going to see a stunned monster in round 1 or 2 at least two thirds of the time with this token.

To stun the monster 1/2 the time on round 1 or 2 you'd want the odds of a single puck stunning the monster to be around 16%.

I might shrink this range to 18-20 (but I don't know how often the stun is desired to be triggered, or how common non-stunnable monsters are).


Stun locking a monster is already a think the rosp character can already do that with a spell, with cleric helping I think we could keep something stunned for 8 rounds with the right build.


For the long-term viability of the game, it seems like enabling the party to lock down the monster in stuns so that it never gets an attack in is a pretty bad idea. Some of the stuff like this enabled by these new tokens seems a lot more unbalancing to the game than the two tokens which were nerfed last year for being unbalanced.


Perhaps,
It’s an precursor for having many multiple monsters in each room so, you might stun one but there are 4 others to deal with.....


Which would be awesome, as wizards and their AoE could really shine!


Wink Wink <Evil Grin>
Please visit my fledgling token store.
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247486
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 3 years 4 months ago #114

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Boilerplate wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Xavon wrote:

WaterSomePlants wrote: Hmmm.... Can the Lenses of Vital Insight be swapped for Lenses of Seer Sight?


I don't see why this keeps coming up. I would not expect to be able to swap my old Woody +1 Plate Mail be swapped for Lucky Plate Armor.


Because of TD's prior generosity in allowing 2 URs that I can think of to be traded in when they were eclipsed.


Yep. And I think this is a similar situation. If not a straight swap, at least allow spending a few trade goods or dex item or something to do an upgrade.


I don't agree with most of Xavon's ideas, but I'm with him 100% on this one. This is ridiculous.

LoDS and CoS were nerfed for game balancing. Those tokens were changed and retroactively made null in their original printing.

The same thing happened with Druid's Wild Vestments.

We have clear parameters for when trade-ins were previously offered. These tokens were straight-up errata'd.

Anyone with Lenses of Vital Insight still has a Lenses of Vital Insight. They can still equip them and still utilize the token exactly as printed on the text.

If you want the +2 dex, sell off your Vital Insight to a red player and put the funds towards a 2020 PYP.


There is a precedent for trading in Gloves of Dexterity for Gloves of the Cutpurse though. That wasnt even as clear cut as this case, where one was immediately better than another. In that case, a player with gloves that have +2 Dex could exchange them for gloves that gave +5 Dex/-2 Str.

These gloves were at least 7 years old at the time this decision was made.

I dont think there should be a trade in, but those arguing for unfortunately have a case to make.


Thanks Wade I was trying to remember those gloves. I was thinking “clear” was an understatement.

I would prefer not to “sell to a red player and put the profits toward a PYP” only because I feel like the statement is fairly condescending.

I don’t know how I feel about a trade in recipe for vital insight, it is an interesting thought. The idea of some goods or a dex item is interesting, it inflated the number processed if the new tokens, and creates scarcity in the old token. It is interesting.

TPTB could also just update the token entry on TokenDB to include 2 dex for vital insight and point out it is not printed in the token. Token creators could add it and only those not using one would likely be out the 2 dex.

It is all very interesting.
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Trade thread truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253064#406060
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 3 years 4 months ago #115

I'm pretty sure you could exchange Druid’s Wild Vestments for Shirt of the Fae as well, unless I am mistaken.
Playing True Dungeon since 2012.
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 3 years 4 months ago #116

Philip Goodman wrote: I'm pretty sure you could exchange Druid’s Wild Vestments for Shirt of the Fae as well, unless I am mistaken.


Indeed you could up until last year.
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 3 years 4 months ago #117

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David Zych wrote:

jpotter wrote:

Endgame wrote: Still think the -1 con should be put on the arcane items, and then add the +3 con should be part of the set bonus.

Let's starting making a cost to slot expanders. In this case either pay a con penalty or lock in 3 slots for the set (not much of a penalty considering it has 2 expanders and an awesome belt)


Do you not feel that putting a cost on slot expanders now is unfair to newer players? Essentially the older players got all of their slot expanders w/out a negative side-effect, but we aren't giving that option to the new players? I totally get what you are saying, but I feel negatives on the tokens now would more adversely affect new players. Old players will just stick with their out of print tokens that didn't hurt them.


A possible middle ground is to put costs on any new slot expanders which are stronger than existing slot expanders.

If we accept that charms are generally stronger than iouns, then Arcane Bracelets are weaker than Charm Bracelets and therefore don't need a penalty. OTOH Arcane Earcuff is stronger than either Orbits (since charms > iouns) or Charm Bracelets (since giving up 1 of 2 ear slots is less opportunity cost than giving up wrists), and therefore it would not be at all unfair IMO for Arcane Earcuff to have a penalty. Speaking as someone who currently owns zero slot expanders and is excited to buy some next year. :)

edit: and if we do give Arcane Earcuff a penalty for balance, I think I'd actually prefer that said penalty not be erased by a set bonus.


I dont accept this premise. That's kind of the problem with slot expanders though. We can't assume slots won't grow way more powerful. Charms was once not a contested slot so it was ok to give people access to more/dump lots of miscellaneous effects in there. Now charms are powerhouses and we have to live with it. Same might still be true of iouns but I suspect in a few more years they will be a lot more powerful too and they will drag the power level of any slot expanders that affect them along for the ride.
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Sartre sits in in a coffee shop and asks for a coffee without cream. The barista apologizes “Sorry, we don't have any cream. Can I offer you a coffee without milk instead?”
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 3 years 4 months ago #118

Crap there are way to many tokens I want here...
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 3 years 4 months ago #119

Final stab at this idea:

Consider releasing the Arcunum Shirts in:

CON, DEX, STR, Focus or,
DEX, CON, STR, Focus

order rather than having the most desirable STR/melee be released first.

This will make the later pieces that tend to be "extra" after transmutation more in demand.
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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2020 Ultra Rare Token Images 3 years 4 months ago #120

macXdmg wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Boilerplate wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Xavon wrote:

WaterSomePlants wrote: Hmmm.... Can the Lenses of Vital Insight be swapped for Lenses of Seer Sight?


I don't see why this keeps coming up. I would not expect to be able to swap my old Woody +1 Plate Mail be swapped for Lucky Plate Armor.


Because of TD's prior generosity in allowing 2 URs that I can think of to be traded in when they were eclipsed.


Yep. And I think this is a similar situation. If not a straight swap, at least allow spending a few trade goods or dex item or something to do an upgrade.


I don't agree with most of Xavon's ideas, but I'm with him 100% on this one. This is ridiculous.

LoDS and CoS were nerfed for game balancing. Those tokens were changed and retroactively made null in their original printing.

The same thing happened with Druid's Wild Vestments.

We have clear parameters for when trade-ins were previously offered. These tokens were straight-up errata'd.

Anyone with Lenses of Vital Insight still has a Lenses of Vital Insight. They can still equip them and still utilize the token exactly as printed on the text.

If you want the +2 dex, sell off your Vital Insight to a red player and put the funds towards a 2020 PYP.


There is a precedent for trading in Gloves of Dexterity for Gloves of the Cutpurse though. That wasnt even as clear cut as this case, where one was immediately better than another. In that case, a player with gloves that have +2 Dex could exchange them for gloves that gave +5 Dex/-2 Str.

These gloves were at least 7 years old at the time this decision was made.

I dont think there should be a trade in, but those arguing for unfortunately have a case to make.


Thanks Wade I was trying to remember those gloves. I was thinking “clear” was an understatement.

I would prefer not to “sell to a red player and put the profits toward a PYP” only because I feel like the statement is fairly condescending.

I don’t know how I feel about a trade in recipe for vital insight, it is an interesting thought. The idea of some goods or a dex item is interesting, it inflated the number processed if the new tokens, and creates scarcity in the old token. It is interesting.

TPTB could also just update the token entry on TokenDB to include 2 dex for vital insight and point out it is not printed in the token. Token creators could add it and only those not using one would likely be out the 2 dex.

It is all very interesting.


I like the simplicity of using the TDB description. Good idea.
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