TOPIC: 2020 Rare Token Images

I’d still like to see the wand put back to 8 damage.

It might be a little late for this suggestion but it would be nice to see a rare polymorph potion with the additional Ranger Animal Friend coming into play and the Druid legendary allowing to activate any polymorph potion without consuming it.

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I would support reinstating the Mail of Luck with it's +1 to saves.

Players need saves in the ~10 range to be 50/50 to save on Hardcore.

It is difficult for several classes to get there today on rare gear.

I haven't had a huge problem with it due to the cloak of painful luck. I think rouge is the most difficult, and I'm getting +8/+10/+8 there.

Which classes are you seeing the problem?

Edit
Also, see my suggestion for a +2 amulet of protection with +2 ac and +2 saves. Could be printed next year

Here's what I'm using for saves at a rare build:

+2 Cloak of Resistance, Ioun Stone Beryl Prism, One +4 saves ring (keeps the other ring free for Ring of Dark Health).

4th level characters gives (+ sign next to the stat with the ring):

Class: FORT, REFX, WILL

Barbarian: 9, 5, 9+
Bard: 8+, 8, 8
Cleric: 7, 8+, 10
Druid: 9, 10+, 11
Dwarf Fighter: 10, 5, 8+
Elf Wizard: 9+, 5, 7
Fighter: 8, 5, 9+
Monk: 13+, 9, 12
Paladin: 10, 8, 12+
Ranger: 8, 10, 9+
Rogue: 8+, 10, 5
Wizard: 5, 8+, 7

You can see most of these numbers are less than 10.

You can add one across the board with Cloak of Painful Luck at the cost of maybe 6 damage over the dungeon.

You can add another 4 to one non-+'ed stat by adding a second ring and losing +1 to damage and probably 5 HP of healing over the dungeon.

You can add to RFLX pretty easy with Charm of Sipquick and pants.

You can add +1 to a save with one of the uncommon earcuffs.

I'd really like to be able to get rare builds up to about 15 saves. To do so we'd want something like:
+1 all in torso
+2 all in neck
A cycle of +4 to one charms
+1 to all saves 3 star earcuff
+1 to all saves 3 or 4 star charm

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I would support reinstating the Mail of Luck with it's +1 to saves.

Players need saves in the ~10 range to be 50/50 to save on Hardcore.

It is difficult for several classes to get there today on rare gear.

I haven't had a huge problem with it due to the cloak of painful luck. I think rouge is the most difficult, and I'm getting +8/+10/+8 there.

Which classes are you seeing the problem?

Edit
Also, see my suggestion for a +2 amulet of protection with +2 ac and +2 saves. Could be printed next year

Here's what I'm using for saves at a rare build:

+2 Cloak of Resistance, Ioun Stone Beryl Prism, One +4 saves ring (keeps the other ring free for Ring of Dark Health).

4th level characters gives (+ sign next to the stat with the ring):

Class: FORT, REFX, WILL

Barbarian: 9, 5, 9+
Bard: 8+, 8, 8
Cleric: 7, 8+, 10
Druid: 9, 10+, 11
Dwarf Fighter: 10, 5, 8+
Elf Wizard: 9+, 5, 7
Fighter: 8, 5, 9+
Monk: 13+, 9, 12
Paladin: 10, 8, 12+
Ranger: 8, 10, 9+
Rogue: 8+, 10, 5
Wizard: 5, 8+, 7

You can see most of these numbers are less than 10.

You can add one across the board with Cloak of Painful Luck at the cost of maybe 6 damage over the dungeon.

You can add another 4 to one non-+'ed stat by adding a second ring and losing +1 to damage and probably 5 HP of healing over the dungeon.

You can add to RFLX pretty easy with Charm of Sipquick and pants.

You can add +1 to a save with one of the uncommon earcuffs.

I'd really like to be able to get rare builds up to about 15 saves. To do so we'd want something like:
+1 all in torso
+2 all in neck
A cycle of +4 to one charms
+1 to all saves 3 star earcuff
+1 to all saves 3 or 4 star charm

I see some of the placed where we differ.

Fighters - defenders helm

Most all Classes: offhand ranged shield, earcuff (intellect is getting hard to find), pants of lynx, armor (nether fate, or specific save like darkling void), bracelets of frail agility, sipquick. For non melee classes, baneful mettle belt is cheap enough I've been including it.

Check out some of my updated starter build threads. I have quite a few to go, but barbarian, Dwarf fighter, and monk are done.

People have made valid points as to why a rare neck item should be more powerful, and I'm not arguing against that. But I want to make sure that we are all clear that the Amulet of Vigor is by far the most powerful rare token ever made, even when compared to rare volunteer tokens.

For example, the Earcuff of Vitality, which is so popular it is being reprinted in 2020, is only +2 to max hp, and it's an ear slot which yes there are two of them but it isn't a charm or ioun stone either.

With either +2 to STR OR +5 to max HP the Amulet of Vigor would still be in the running for the most powerful rare token outside of volunteer tokens (mostly I'm thinking about Amulet of the Hero).

Perhaps it can be changed to +1 STR and +5 to max hp. That will generally be the same for any new players, or people who pull it out of a 10-pack on a run.

Again, no heartburn for me, just making sure that is understood all around.

Kirk Bauer wrote: People have made valid points as to why a rare neck item should be more powerful, and I'm not arguing against that. But I want to make sure that we are all clear that the Amulet of Vigor is by far the most powerful rare token ever made, even when compared to rare volunteer tokens.

For example, the Earcuff of Vitality, which is so popular it is being reprinted in 2020, is only +2 to max hp, and it's an ear slot which yes there are two of them but it isn't a charm or ioun stone either.

With either +2 to STR OR +5 to max HP the Amulet of Vigor would still be in the running for the most powerful rare token outside of volunteer tokens (mostly I'm thinking about Amulet of the Hero).

Perhaps it can be changed to +1 STR and +5 to max hp. That will generally be the same for any new players, or people who pull it out of a 10-pack on a run.

Again, no heartburn for me, just making sure that is understood all around.

Is neck supposed to be one of, if not the most, powerful slot? It was explained as the most powerful slot in the game to my party early on, but it totally failed to live up to that unless you were talking UR.

I would prefer the rare neck to be better than it is now, but am Ok with it. That said, I don't think I'm who you are asking

These are rare tokens that I still use on a bunch of my nightmare level builds. I think they are all better than the proposed neck, but that's just my opinion. I can see a mostly UR player using some of these maybe sometimes. I don't really see a mostly UR player using the proposed neck. I really like it as a stepping stone between the not so great necks they have access to at R and below, and the really great stuff that exists at UR and above.

+2 cloak of resistance.
Probably now Cloak of Painful Luck.
Charm of Enlightenment
Earcuff of inspiration
Lenses of Heimdall Sight (THIS thing is kinda crazy...)
Boots of Inferno Step and next year the Shock boots
Ring of Brilliance
The resist rings
Gauntlets of Ogre Power and Gauntlets of the Midguard Serpent
Ioun Stone Beryl Prism
Ioun Stone Topaz Sphere

That's not a super long list I guess. But I don't think I agree with the idea that this proposed neck is the best rare ever printed. It seems good. Seems like it will be a staple for rare players that don't have much in that slot. Not nearly as good as URs. Isn't that where it should be?

Kirk Bauer wrote: People have made valid points as to why a rare neck item should be more powerful, and I'm not arguing against that. But I want to make sure that we are all clear that the Amulet of Vigor is by far the most powerful rare token ever made, even when compared to rare volunteer tokens.

+1 to hit / damage in melee and +5 HP is not "by far more powerful" than +1 to hit / damage melee, +1 to ranged hit, +1 AC, +1 Reflex, +1 Fort, +4 HP, which is what Amulet of the Champion gives you right off the bat.

I understand the odd stats are situational, but +1 STR/DEX/CON is not obviously worse than +2 STR/+5 HP.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I would support reinstating the Mail of Luck with it's +1 to saves.

Players need saves in the ~10 range to be 50/50 to save on Hardcore.

It is difficult for several classes to get there today on rare gear.

I haven't had a huge problem with it due to the cloak of painful luck. I think rouge is the most difficult, and I'm getting +8/+10/+8 there.

Which classes are you seeing the problem?

Edit
Also, see my suggestion for a +2 amulet of protection with +2 ac and +2 saves. Could be printed next year

Here's what I'm using for saves at a rare build:

+2 Cloak of Resistance, Ioun Stone Beryl Prism, One +4 saves ring (keeps the other ring free for Ring of Dark Health).

4th level characters gives (+ sign next to the stat with the ring):

Class: FORT, REFX, WILL

Barbarian: 9, 5, 9+
Bard: 8+, 8, 8
Cleric: 7, 8+, 10
Druid: 9, 10+, 11
Dwarf Fighter: 10, 5, 8+
Elf Wizard: 9+, 5, 7
Fighter: 8, 5, 9+
Monk: 13+, 9, 12
Paladin: 10, 8, 12+
Ranger: 8, 10, 9+
Rogue: 8+, 10, 5
Wizard: 5, 8+, 7

You can see most of these numbers are less than 10.

You can add one across the board with Cloak of Painful Luck at the cost of maybe 6 damage over the dungeon.

You can add another 4 to one non-+'ed stat by adding a second ring and losing +1 to damage and probably 5 HP of healing over the dungeon.

You can add to RFLX pretty easy with Charm of Sipquick and pants.

You can add +1 to a save with one of the uncommon earcuffs.

I'd really like to be able to get rare builds up to about 15 saves. To do so we'd want something like:
+1 all in torso
+2 all in neck
A cycle of +4 to one charms
+1 to all saves 3 star earcuff
+1 to all saves 3 or 4 star charm

Some rare tokens to consider:
Crown of Iron Will: +4 Will; Druid, Ranger, Wizard, Elf Wizard, Monk
Helmet of Fortitude: +3 Fort; Barbarian, Fighter, Dwarf Fighter, Paladin (if 2-hander)
Defender Helm: +1 all; Fighter, Dwarf Fighter, Paladin, Cleric (if 1-hander)
Earcuff of Intellect: +1 Will
Darkling Earcuff: +1 Ref
Earcuff of the Bliss: +1 Fort
Darkling Void Armor: +2 Ref; Druid, Barbarian, Rogue, Ranger
Pants of the Lynx: +3 Ref
Charm of Enlightenment: +4 Will; I know its getting expensive, but thats because its really good.

Kirk Bauer wrote: People have made valid points as to why a rare neck item should be more powerful, and I'm not arguing against that. But I want to make sure that we are all clear that the Amulet of Vigor is by far the most powerful rare token ever made, even when compared to rare volunteer tokens.

For example, the Earcuff of Vitality, which is so popular it is being reprinted in 2020, is only +2 to max hp, and it's an ear slot which yes there are two of them but it isn't a charm or ioun stone either.

With either +2 to STR OR +5 to max HP the Amulet of Vigor would still be in the running for the most powerful rare token outside of volunteer tokens (mostly I'm thinking about Amulet of the Hero).

Perhaps it can be changed to +1 STR and +5 to max hp. That will generally be the same for any new players, or people who pull it out of a 10-pack on a run.

Again, no heartburn for me, just making sure that is understood all around.

+1

jpotter wrote: These are rare tokens that I still use on a bunch of my nightmare level builds. I think they are all better than the proposed neck, but that's just my opinion. I can see a mostly UR player using some of these maybe sometimes. I don't really see a mostly UR player using the proposed neck. I really like it as a stepping stone between the not so great necks they have access to at R and below, and the really great stuff that exists at UR and above.

+2 cloak of resistance.
Probably now Cloak of Painful Luck.
Charm of Enlightenment
Earcuff of inspiration
Lenses of Heimdall Sight (THIS thing is kinda crazy...)
Boots of Inferno Step and next year the Shock boots
Ring of Brilliance
The resist rings
Gauntlets of Ogre Power and Gauntlets of the Midguard Serpent
Ioun Stone Beryl Prism
Ioun Stone Topaz Sphere

That's not a super long list I guess. But I don't think I agree with the idea that this proposed neck is the best rare ever printed. It seems good. Seems like it will be a staple for rare players that don't have much in that slot. Not nearly as good as URs. Isn't that where it should be?

Still using Charm of Enlightenment myself as my 3rd Charm.

Matthew Hayward wrote: I would support reinstating the Mail of Luck with it's +1 to saves.

Players need saves in the ~10 range to be 50/50 to save on Hardcore.

It is difficult for several classes to get there today on rare gear.

Maybe it was too confusing with the UR Lucky set tokens. I still like my idea of having the Lucky set at both Rare and UR level, but I respect Jeff's decision not to go that way.