TOPIC: Transmute Ideas Please!

I've been thinking about the Barbarian transmute.

It's supposed to be an amulet, so it has to be better than tokendb.com/token/medallion-of-valhalla/ which is a tough bar to beat.

I am thinking it should interact with Rage. Relic: 1 extra use. Legendary: unlimited uses. That does not seem unreasonable to me.

Another option I would like is boost the Damage Reduction ability. Relic: +3 DR. Legendary: +5 DR. That may not be as exciting but it would be pretty powerful considering it affects all sources of damage except Push and Eldritch.

Or how about: Relic: 1/game go into an Inspiring Rage for +3 dmg for the party. Legendary: 1/game go into a Greater Inspiring Rage for +5 dmg for the party. This would be separate from Rage / Greater Rage which would still only affect yourself. So you would still use regular Rage in one combat and then Inspiring Rage in a different one. I like the teamwork aspect of TD and Barbarian and Fighter are the only classes that can't help the party/teammates in some way except by doing damage. Even Dwarf Fighter has Taunt, Monk has stun, etc etc.

Just throwing some thoughts out there. I would love to hear other ideas. I wouldn't expect any of these to be used verbatim. Based on the class legendaries we have seen so far, they have all been some combination of 2 or 3 effects into one token. So I would certainly hope for the same for the Barbarian!

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

PalaDan wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Paladin only
+3 Holy Defender, gives +1 to saves for party, may remove curse once per game

+5 Holy Avenger, gives +2 to saves for party, may remove curse once per game, may reuse lay on hands once per adventure. May smite evil once per game (+15 damage to evil opponent)

I honestly don't know if that is too good or not good enough.

I love this, but it’s probably OP. But, gods, I love it!

Well, we do need to design the Holy Avenger. I think I recall jeff having the +2 saves for the party on the UR in initial pass through last year.

Agreed. I really do like your suggested progression path, especially the smite. I would remove the extra lay on hands.

Jeff321 wrote: I've been thinking about the Barbarian transmute.

It's supposed to be an amulet, so it has to be better than tokendb.com/token/medallion-of-valhalla/ which is a tough bar to beat.

I am thinking it should interact with Rage. Relic: 1 extra use. Legendary: unlimited uses. That does not seem unreasonable to me.

Another option I would like is boost the Damage Reduction ability. Relic: +3 DR. Legendary: +5 DR. That may not be as exciting but it would be pretty powerful considering it affects all sources of damage except Push and Eldritch.

Or how about: Relic: 1/game go into an Inspiring Rage for +3 dmg for the party. Legendary: 1/game go into a Greater Inspiring Rage for +5 dmg for the party. This would be separate from Rage / Greater Rage which would still only affect yourself. So you would still use regular Rage in one combat and then Inspiring Rage in a different one. I like the teamwork aspect of TD and Barbarian and Fighter are the only classes that can't help the party/teammates in some way except by doing damage. Even Dwarf Fighter has Taunt, Monk has stun, etc etc.

Just throwing some thoughts out there. I would love to hear other ideas. I wouldn't expect any of these to be used verbatim. Based on the class legendaries we have seen so far, they have all been some combination of 2 or 3 effects into one token. So I would certainly hope for the same for the Barbarian!

This Barbarian agrees! I have wondered if the class-specific tokens would be something like:

Relic - restore rage 1x as free action; crit on 19-20
Legendary - can rage in every room (combat?), crit on 17-20

But is that too powerful? Not powerful enough? Should the rage add more than 4/6 damage, e.g., +1 damage during rage for relic, +2 for legendary?

Jeff321 wrote: I've been thinking about the Barbarian transmute.

It's supposed to be an amulet, so it has to be better than tokendb.com/token/medallion-of-valhalla/ which is a tough bar to beat.

I am thinking it should interact with Rage. Relic: 1 extra use. Legendary: unlimited uses. That does not seem unreasonable to me.

Another option I would like is boost the Damage Reduction ability. Relic: +3 DR. Legendary: +5 DR. That may not be as exciting but it would be pretty powerful considering it affects all sources of damage except Push and Eldritch.

Or how about: Relic: 1/game go into an Inspiring Rage for +3 dmg for the party. Legendary: 1/game go into a Greater Inspiring Rage for +5 dmg for the party. This would be separate from Rage / Greater Rage which would still only affect yourself. So you would still use regular Rage in one combat and then Inspiring Rage in a different one. I like the teamwork aspect of TD and Barbarian and Fighter are the only classes that can't help the party/teammates in some way except by doing damage. Even Dwarf Fighter has Taunt, Monk has stun, etc etc.

Just throwing some thoughts out there. I would love to hear other ideas. I wouldn't expect any of these to be used verbatim. Based on the class legendaries we have seen so far, they have all been some combination of 2 or 3 effects into one token. So I would certainly hope for the same for the Barbarian!

+1

I like the idea of an additional rage and improved DR.

BeLinda Mathie wrote: This Barbarian agrees! I have wondered if the class-specific tokens would be something like:

Relic - restore rage 1x as free action; crit on 19-20
Legendary - can rage in every room (combat?), crit on 17-20

But is that too powerful? Not powerful enough? Should the rage add more than 4/6 damage, e.g., +1 damage during rage for relic, +2 for legendary?

What if it behaved like the old Power Attack feat? Barbarian can take -2 to the attack for +5 damage.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: For Barbarians
Maybe increase their rage bonuses with the relic, then give a 2nd use at legendary?

For rangers, should we design for the ranged ranger or the dual wield? It would be tough to do both.

Actually, super easy, barely and inconvenience: double all damage dealt by ranger (weapon, item, retribution, anything else?)

God, I hope you're kidding.....

Yeah - it should be triple at least.

Endgame wrote: Would a relic ioun stone of +3 saves and +2 ac be in the right range?

Yup - maybe a touch strong - there are UR Iouns:
+1 to saves and +1 AC
or
+2 to saves
or
+2 to saves and -10 from Darkrift


UR to Relic on cloaks gets you +1 to saves.
UR to Relic on AC items gets you between +2 to one save or +2 to one save and +1 to AC

So I would say you'd aim for a relic Ioun around +2 to saves and +1 to AC and maybe a little something extra. Maybe even +2/+2.

Endgame wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Rob F wrote: I will have to think on specifics, but I'd like to see some sort of transmute path beyond the Legendaries.

Two words.

Power Creep.

Agreed. Legendaries should be the upper cap to the game. Nothing should be more ac than the Redoubt set for example. This should make balancing the dungeons by level easier to maintain going forward.

a. We may already be there (it's not clear Eltricth Relics are less or more powerful than Legendaries, we don't know what the Paragon transmute will be).

b. I think it would be fine especially if the general rule was higher level transmutes can't affect the party card. For example, a "Mythic" level transmute that conveyed the GT effect from last year: you may equip one additional token in any slot you could equip anyway that does not impact the party card or expand slots would seem OK to me.

Yancey wrote: I'd like to see six rocks, or stones, each of which could be held in the off hand, each of which g, unve +X to an individual stat. Then at some point you could make a glove, or gauntlet I guess that allowed you to hold more than one. Oh... or maybe you could just fix the rocks to the glove! You know... use all six. That could be a neat thing to transmute. I mean, unless its been done before... I'm kinda new to this posting on the forums thing...

Where is the upvote button?

Jeff321 wrote: I've been thinking about the Barbarian transmute.

It's supposed to be an amulet, so it has to be better than tokendb.com/token/medallion-of-valhalla/ which is a tough bar to beat.

I am thinking it should interact with Rage. Relic: 1 extra use. Legendary: unlimited uses. That does not seem unreasonable to me.

Another option I would like is boost the Damage Reduction ability. Relic: +3 DR. Legendary: +5 DR. That may not be as exciting but it would be pretty powerful considering it affects all sources of damage except Push and Eldritch.

Or how about: Relic: 1/game go into an Inspiring Rage for +3 dmg for the party. Legendary: 1/game go into a Greater Inspiring Rage for +5 dmg for the party. This would be separate from Rage / Greater Rage which would still only affect yourself. So you would still use regular Rage in one combat and then Inspiring Rage in a different one. I like the teamwork aspect of TD and Barbarian and Fighter are the only classes that can't help the party/teammates in some way except by doing damage. Even Dwarf Fighter has Taunt, Monk has stun, etc etc.

Just throwing some thoughts out there. I would love to hear other ideas. I wouldn't expect any of these to be used verbatim. Based on the class legendaries we have seen so far, they have all been some combination of 2 or 3 effects into one token. So I would certainly hope for the same for the Barbarian!

I like these a fair bit. Although I worry that Avernon's Healing Cherry makes a relic that lets you use Rage twice... underwhelming.

I rarely remember to use rage, if I had the legendary I would remember it. I would suggest in that case we just bake rage into the character card for the player who equips the item so that they don't have to constantly waste time reminding the DM about their buff.

The best thing about it is it would stack with future rage enhancers.


Increased DR is meh to me - barbarians are already so resilient... Maybe instead auto-pass one failed save per game?


Wait - no - I've got it! New class ability at Legendary: Berserk - you may slide two pucks in combat (or maybe your melee damage modifier is doubled?).

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Yancey wrote: I'd like to see six rocks, or stones, each of which could be held in the off hand, each of which g, unve +X to an individual stat. Then at some point you could make a glove, or gauntlet I guess that allowed you to hold more than one. Oh... or maybe you could just fix the rocks to the glove! You know... use all six. That could be a neat thing to transmute. I mean, unless its been done before... I'm kinda new to this posting on the forums thing...

Where is the upvote button?

I missed that the first time through, let’s call it a “gauntlet of gems” and add one treasure pull to it for funzies.

For Ranger I like something to double down on their unique abilities with Ranged weapons. It is an area of real differentiation, treasured by many. I know many Rangers go two fisted melee - but that's not unique to them - being archers par excellence is.

Relic Amulet of the Sharpshooter - Neck - All
+4 to DEX, +2 to ranged damage

Legendary - Heartseeker - Neck - Ranger
+6 to DEX, +4 to ranged damage, May re-use 1 ammo token for entire combat, your ranged attacks have the True Flight ability, (ignores cover and wind penalties to hit), you get a surprise attack on party initiative 15-20 (a'la Charm of Quick Strike)