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TOPIC: Transmute Ideas Please!

Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 3 months ago #433

Fiddy wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Hawk Fingle wrote: ...Anyhoo.

I wouldn't mind seeing another scroll modifier token of some sort. Personal choice would be something that grants a stat bonus to scroll damage & healing.


What about:

Charm of Inks
Up to 5 pts of Focus from other items can be applied to scrolls.
Usable by: Bard, Cleric, Druid, & Wizards


I think anything that I would use on the offhand chance I might use a scroll would have to be spotless like the suggested magnifying glass.


If you're focusing on spells from your card, then I agree I'd only equip it as slotless. But making it slotless just turns it into a straight-up must equip. If we ever want to go the route of trying to make a scroll-based build into a primary approach, you'd probably want to avoid tossing too many things slotless. How about an Ioun Stone?

I could see something like this turning into an interesting build when combined with Lenses of Sage Speed (or even the revised Lenses of Divine Sight), Greater Arcane Scroll Tube, and Cabal set.


It's been a pretty interesting Dungeon Bard build without the Cabal gloves and adding Charm of the Sage.

Thematically, it's hard to determine the slot that would make sense and isn't already taken up. I'd probably suggest it be gloves since AoE scrolls have become more prevalent in recent years, making the Cabal gloves not so needed.

What about something like this:
Rare - Gloves of the Sage, +2 to Scroll Damage/Healing
Enhanced 3pt - Gloves of the Scholar, +4 to Scroll Damage/Healing

Or how about:
Rare - Earcuff of the Sage, Add Bardsong bonuses to damage scrolls (To Hit for scrolls requiring a slide)
Enhanced 3pt - Earcuff of the Scholar, Add Bardsong bonuses to damage scrolls, Bard's CHA modifier to healing scrolls

That would help out the sliding scrolls a lot. I admit the earcuff using the Bard's CHA modifier isn't very clean, but I couldn't figure how better to scale the healing bonus so it could potentially outweigh the damage bonus and be worthy as a transmute. Base Bard CHA modifier is +3, potentially +5 with a Crown of Charisma, +6 with the legendary robe, and up to a +8 with both the crown and the legendary robe.

The gloves is probably a cleaner transmute route. I like the earcuffs too but don't expect it to pass muster around here.

I'll have to dig through to find the magnifying glass mentioned.
Avatar Image by Graven, 2015. Thanks, Graven!
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 3 months ago #434

Heya all,

I'm back after taking a few months (more like half a year) trying to get on top of the whole New Job + Social Life dynamics, and am still trying to find room for TD forums... but I hope I've got a handle on thingsnow, and will be around more often.

Lots of great ideas tossed around in all the token development threads. This is one of the ones which sticks out to me, and I'd love to see it get some real consideration:

macXdmg wrote: Figurine of Power: Relic Phoenix Rising : immediately restore 1 character who just died to life with 7 hp. 1/game

It technically negates a failed save, or heals a character 4+3, and leaves a person with enough to take push damage of 6 points.




Admittedly, we've never had a transmuted figurine... but if we did, I think this would be a very nice power (and power level) for it. Well thought out, Mac.
It'd also be a great upgrade path for a FoP: Phoenix reprint (or another UR FoP) and an appealing one for new(er) players who still find death a very real threat in the dungeon.
"THERE WILL NEVER BE A TOKEN EQUAL TO A GOOD BRAIN!"- Smakdown

Check out these awesome resources:
Cranston's Character Generator for iDevices or Android
Amorgen's Excel Character Generator
And the ever-useful Token DataBase , expertly maintained by Druegar.
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 3 months ago #435

Raven wrote: Heya all,

I'm back after taking a few months (more like half a year) trying to get on top of the whole New Job + Social Life dynamics, and am still trying to find room for TD forums... but I hope I've got a handle on thingsnow, and will be around more often.

Lots of great ideas tossed around in all the token development threads. This is one of the ones which sticks out to me, and I'd love to see it get some real consideration:

macXdmg wrote: Figurine of Power: Relic Phoenix Rising : immediately restore 1 character who just died to life with 7 hp. 1/game

It technically negates a failed save, or heals a character 4+3, and leaves a person with enough to take push damage of 6 points.




Admittedly, we've never had a transmuted figurine... but if we did, I think this would be a very nice power (and power level) for it. Well thought out, Mac.
It'd also be a great upgrade path for a FoP: Phoenix reprint (or another UR FoP) and an appealing one for new(er) players who still find death a very real threat in the dungeon.


Nice to see you contributing here Raven!

Classes - Cleric, Paladin?
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 3 months ago #436

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Raven wrote: Heya all,

I'm back after taking a few months (more like half a year) trying to get on top of the whole New Job + Social Life dynamics, and am still trying to find room for TD forums... but I hope I've got a handle on thingsnow, and will be around more often.

Lots of great ideas tossed around in all the token development threads. This is one of the ones which sticks out to me, and I'd love to see it get some real consideration:

macXdmg wrote: Figurine of Power: Relic Phoenix Rising : immediately restore 1 character who just died to life with 7 hp. 1/game

It technically negates a failed save, or heals a character 4+3, and leaves a person with enough to take push damage of 6 points.




Admittedly, we've never had a transmuted figurine... but if we did, I think this would be a very nice power (and power level) for it. Well thought out, Mac.
It'd also be a great upgrade path for a FoP: Phoenix reprint (or another UR FoP) and an appealing one for new(er) players who still find death a very real threat in the dungeon.


Nice to see you contributing here Raven!

Classes - Cleric, Paladin?


Welcome back Raven.

So I think I worded it like that so the rich could help the poor if that makes sense. Admittedly if it was limited in class that helpfulness would go out the door, with that in mind I could see it limited to Cleric, Druid, Bard, Ranger, Paladin if all was truly unacceptable.
--
macXdmg
Monk of the Painda Order
Bard of the College of Sick Beats
Last edit: by macxdmg.
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 3 months ago #437

macXdmg wrote: So I think I worded it like that so the rich could help the poor if that makes sense. Admittedly if it was limited in class that helpfulness would go out the door, with that in mind I could see it limited to Cleric, Druid, Bard, Ranger, Paladin if all was truly unacceptable.


As far as I know, most Relics (aside from the Weapons) have been intentionally made open to as many classes as possible, so more people are likely to make them.

Is there any reason it couldn't be open to all classes? If not - then I agree with Matthew hayward that the Cleric and Paladin classes make the most sense. But I'd rather see it open to everyone....

As you say, it's so the Rich can help the Poor.
The token is specifically to rescue *another* player from the clutches of death, not for yourself... what a great item for a vet to equip when they're in a group of newbies!

It would also make for interesting choices when equipping. Do you equip the figurine which helps others, or one which helps yourself?
"THERE WILL NEVER BE A TOKEN EQUAL TO A GOOD BRAIN!"- Smakdown

Check out these awesome resources:
Cranston's Character Generator for iDevices or Android
Amorgen's Excel Character Generator
And the ever-useful Token DataBase , expertly maintained by Druegar.
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 3 months ago #438

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I don’t know about all classes. Looking over the relics that exist, excluding weapons as you rightly pointed out there are a lot that are all classes but still a number that are more restrictive for classes. These are when they make sense to restrict them like the blessed redoubt armor or the ring of greater focus. Since we do have figurine that restrict class already, I don’t see it a stretch to restrict a relic version.
Not saying it should be just that I don’t think someone being a relic should open it up but we should look at the token and decided based on what it does and what it does if it should be restictive or not.
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 3 months ago #439

jedibcg wrote: I don’t know about all classes. Looking over the relics that exist, excluding weapons as you rightly pointed out there are a lot that are all classes but still a number that are more restrictive for classes. These are when they make sense to restrict them like the blessed redoubt armor or the ring of greater focus. Since we do have figurine that restrict class already, I don’t see it a stretch to restrict a relic version.
Not saying it should be just that I don’t think someone being a relic should open it up but we should look at the token and decided based on what it does and what it does if it should be restictive or not.


In my opinion, figurines should be open to all classes (I'm actually very disappointed that fop: dog isn't). I get that armor and spell casting focus items should be restricted. With figurines, however, they are imbued with some magic that allows an effect. You don't need to be a spell caster (in the case of wands and scrolls).
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 3 months ago #440

Matt Goodman wrote:

jedibcg wrote: I don’t know about all classes. Looking over the relics that exist, excluding weapons as you rightly pointed out there are a lot that are all classes but still a number that are more restrictive for classes. These are when they make sense to restrict them like the blessed redoubt armor or the ring of greater focus. Since we do have figurine that restrict class already, I don’t see it a stretch to restrict a relic version.
Not saying it should be just that I don’t think someone being a relic should open it up but we should look at the token and decided based on what it does and what it does if it should be restictive or not.


In my opinion, figurines should be open to all classes (I'm actually very disappointed that fop: dog isn't). I get that armor and spell casting focus items should be restricted. With figurines, however, they are imbued with some magic that allows an effect. You don't need to be a spell caster (in the case of wands and scrolls).


I'm of the opposite opinion. I like that classes have some things that are just theirs, or restricted to a few. I dont want everyone healing others, or polymorphing, or using wands or scrolls.

I think the more we blend powers, the less special each class feels.

I love the proposed token, and really do think it would be great. I also agree that making a restricted relic during a year with 4 class specific relics may not be the right choice.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 3 months ago #441

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Matt Goodman wrote: In my opinion, figurines should be open to all classes (I'm actually very disappointed that fop: dog isn't). I get that armor and spell casting focus items should be restricted. With figurines, however, they are imbued with some magic that allows an effect. You don't need to be a spell caster (in the case of wands and scrolls).


I'm of the opposite opinion. I like that classes have some things that are just theirs, or restricted to a few. I dont want everyone healing others, or polymorphing, or using wands or scrolls.

I think the more we blend powers, the less special each class feels.

I love the proposed token, and really do think it would be great. I also agree that making a restricted relic during a year with 4 class specific relics may not be the right choice.


I'm perfectly fine with restricting tokens for classes, but not for figurines. Ring of focus (restricted), makes sense (even if rangers are left off and they can heal, still makes sense, imo). Aron's (no restriction), makes sense since everyone can wear a robe but not everyone can wear chain or plate armor. What I'm trying to get at is a figurine has no inherent bias (imo) to what class you play. It has some magic. If it's really powerful magic, it could restore a dead character. If it has less magic, it could let you reslide in combat, or re-roll a saving throw, etc.

Currently, there's 22 figurines in the database:
7 of those are restricted to a subset of classes
Dragon and Tortoise negate the effect of a particular save for a group of classes (why? to me this doesn't make sense), 2013
Bat gives wizards +4 to slide in one room for spells. (Do any other spell casters require slides for spells? If not, then this token makes sense to me. If there are, then it's silly to restrict those classes, imo) 2016
Dog: Cures damage on another person (why is this restricted to only people that have healing spells? Could you not fathom an adventurer walking into the magic shop and saying, I'd like to buy that figurine, it has magic that could heal my friend?) 2019
Owl: Absorbs one melee/missile for druid and ranger. (I think this is due to the fact rangers and druids were originally viewed as more powerful, taking cue from AD&D. If it were being remade today, I doubt this would fly and should be open to all classes) 2012
Phoenix: Cures 20 pts of damage, cleric and paladin. (this may be the best argument for the restrictions proposed. However, it was also created in a year that had class restrictions on all figurines, which those don't make sense to me (Dragon, Tortoise)) 2013
Raven: succeed at a skill test (restricted to classes that have skill test (so, in actuality, the restrictions really aren't necessary)

Of note:
Chipped Bull allows 2 pts of healing to self. Thus, no EVERYONE is a healer, or at least has access to be a healer for themselves (one can split hairs regarding self healing vs. other healing) 2018
All classes can reslide
All classes can add to their saving throws
All classes can reroll a failed saving throw

All of these, imo, are magic of some sort that has been imbued into the figurine. Anyway, more fuel for thoughts, I guess.
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 3 months ago #442

I suppose the way I look at it is that there is something inherent in the type of person who tries to use that figurine that allows them to unlock it's magic, rather than a simple command word or something like that.

In a practical manner, it's a way of keeping some powers and abilities unique to certain classes.

Ultimately I see your argument, I just disagree.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 3 months ago #443

Raven wrote:
As far as I know, most Relics (aside from the Weapons) have been intentionally made open to as many classes as possible, so more people are likely to make them.

Is there any reason it couldn't be open to all classes? If not - then I agree with Matthew hayward that the Cleric and Paladin classes make the most sense. But I'd rather see it open to everyone....

As you say, it's so the Rich can help the Poor.
The token is specifically to rescue *another* player from the clutches of death, not for yourself... what a great item for a vet to equip when they're in a group of newbies!

It would also make for interesting choices when equipping. Do you equip the figurine which helps others, or one which helps yourself?


I want to throw a huge plus one on this.

Any token that has a helping others function is fantastic in my book.

It encourages vets to help newbies.

It encourages some real choice in a slot.


In my opinion just the helping aspect makes me lean towards no restrictions. I understand there are thematic arguments to be made for restrictions, but if this were restricted I would really like to see other ‘helping’ type tokens or figurines show up for the other classes.
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 3 months ago #444

jpotter wrote:

Raven wrote:
As far as I know, most Relics (aside from the Weapons) have been intentionally made open to as many classes as possible, so more people are likely to make them.

Is there any reason it couldn't be open to all classes? If not - then I agree with Matthew hayward that the Cleric and Paladin classes make the most sense. But I'd rather see it open to everyone....

As you say, it's so the Rich can help the Poor.
The token is specifically to rescue *another* player from the clutches of death, not for yourself... what a great item for a vet to equip when they're in a group of newbies!

It would also make for interesting choices when equipping. Do you equip the figurine which helps others, or one which helps yourself?


I want to throw a huge plus one on this.

Any token that has a helping others function is fantastic in my book.

It encourages vets to help newbies.

It encourages some real choice in a slot.


In my opinion just the helping aspect makes me lean towards no restrictions. I understand there are thematic arguments to be made for restrictions, but if this were restricted I would really like to see other ‘helping’ type tokens or figurines show up for the other classes.


I wouldn't mind a series of "helper figurines"
Rangers can aid a ranged attack
Barbarians can show how to add damage to another's attack
Fighters melee to hit
Rogues maybe add to dex or evasion

In fact, I would like to see something like this as a power on the new class cards, if that could work.

Clerics already have restore spell and restore power, Paladins have sacrifice.

Maybe Wizards can add to others will saves?
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 
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