TOPIC: Transmute Ideas Please!

Picc wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Picc wrote: I'm against moving hit from str to dex. For starters it would upset a lot of apple carts who have spent a lot on str builds, but more over it makes dex way way to good.

I should move this to the closing the gap thread, but...

Right now stacking str is the solid single answer to both damage and hitting. This means with items that add 4, 5, 6, + str you end up with situations where a well equipped person just absoutley wipes out a monster in normal in a round.

If you moved hit away from str, and then massively increased ac as level increased, people would HAVE to back off of str to be able to hit. This would allow making hp closer between difficulties and decreasing the effect of someone over equipped running on normal.

Again putting aside the fact that I doubt people would enjoy being messed with so fundamentally. Sure moving hit off str would make str less valuable, but at that point stacking dex raises hit/ranged hit/ac/reflex save. It's a one stop shop for offense/defence/ and saves. You really don't see that as at all worse? Because to me alot of dex items suddenly start to look a lot more OP. I think at best you would shift the OP builds to being dex stack's, and at worst you would make a lot of larger buyers question their investment.

Here's the thing:

This exists today - it's called thrown weapons.

Do we see lots of builds stacking DEX and considering DEX items OP?

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Picc wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Picc wrote: I'm against moving hit from str to dex. For starters it would upset a lot of apple carts who have spent a lot on str builds, but more over it makes dex way way to good.

I should move this to the closing the gap thread, but...

Right now stacking str is the solid single answer to both damage and hitting. This means with items that add 4, 5, 6, + str you end up with situations where a well equipped person just absoutley wipes out a monster in normal in a round.

If you moved hit away from str, and then massively increased ac as level increased, people would HAVE to back off of str to be able to hit. This would allow making hp closer between difficulties and decreasing the effect of someone over equipped running on normal.

Again putting aside the fact that I doubt people would enjoy being messed with so fundamentally. Sure moving hit off str would make str less valuable, but at that point stacking dex raises hit/ranged hit/ac/reflex save. It's a one stop shop for offense/defence/ and saves. You really don't see that as at all worse? Because to me alot of dex items suddenly start to look a lot more OP. I think at best you would shift the OP builds to being dex stack's, and at worst you would make a lot of larger buyers question their investment.

Here's the thing:

This exists today - it's called thrown weapons.

Do we see lots of builds stacking DEX and considering DEX items OP?

That was certainly an argument raised against Thor’s Hammer last year.

Charm of hitting : all - +1 to hit (ranged, melee, spell, all)

Charm of Hurting : all - +1 to damage (ranged, melee, spell, scroll, get lost healing because we are hurting)

charm of hitting hard : all - +1 to hit and damage (4 pt)

So dracolich claw charm is actually really close to this I realize. This is also fairly similar to the unslotted rare boosting Whetstone. 8 years later we could probably have something like the hurt charm if we wanted. It could also just be 2 points of damage, maybe sacred, sonic or cold? Defeating the tomb of terror scared might be useful? The 2 point damage should maybe match the dracolich at 5 pt, though I only say that because that is what the old charm was, it seems weak with things like the ogre mage belt being 3 str and 4pt to put 2 damage in a charm slot as 5 pt relic.

macXdmg wrote: The 2 point damage should maybe match the dracolich at 5 pt, though I only say that because that is what the old charm was, it seems weak with things like the ogre mage belt being 3 str and 4pt to put 2 damage in a charm slot as 5 pt relic.

Some things to consider:

• The charm slot is one of the weaker slots, while the waist slot is one of the stronger slots.
• +3 Str only gets you a +1/+2 to hit and damage in melee and +1/+2 to damage on thrown weapons. Adding to all damage modes is a huge amount of flexibility in how you use the token.
• we have the Eldritch boots that give +5 damage to all, but at a higher rarity level and in a more powerful slot than the charm slot.
• It is tough to rate story arc transmutes within the normal rarity scheme given how few we've had so far. I'd place them as likely slightly weaker than other 5pt transmutes in the same slot. The new bead feels like an exception to that, but we skipped straight from Rare to Story Arc transmute, without a UR or a high level transmute for comparison. We don't really have enough good comparison points though
• Given what the Draco-lich Claw Charm continues to go for, I'm not sure many think it is underpowered.

I don’t think it is weak. It is only 8 of 12 of my character builds. Only wizards (MEC) and healers (used to have Charm of Enlightenment) are not rocking it.

Fiddy wrote:

macXdmg wrote: The 2 point damage should maybe match the dracolich at 5 pt, though I only say that because that is what the old charm was, it seems weak with things like the ogre mage belt being 3 str and 4pt to put 2 damage in a charm slot as 5 pt relic.

Some things to consider:

• The charm slot is one of the weaker slots, while the waist slot is one of the stronger slots.
• +3 Str only gets you a +1/+2 to hit and damage in melee and +1/+2 to damage on thrown weapons. Adding to all damage modes is a huge amount of flexibility in how you use the token.
• we have the Eldritch boots that give +5 damage to all, but at a higher rarity level and in a more powerful slot than the charm slot.
• It is tough to rate story arc transmutes within the normal rarity scheme given how few we've had so far. I'd place them as likely slightly weaker than other 5pt transmutes in the same slot. The new bead feels like an exception to that, but we skipped straight from Rare to Story Arc transmute, without a UR or a high level transmute for comparison. We don't really have enough good comparison points though
• Given what the Draco-lich Claw Charm continues to go for, I'm not sure many think it is underpowered.

I did not realize it was a story arc item, I think my original +1/+1 would be better. 4 pt exalted I’m pretty sure still. It should be some damage type so immunities can apply, not sure which is the most or least common for immune or weakness nor where it should be on that scale.

Harlax wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Picc wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Picc wrote: I'm against moving hit from str to dex. For starters it would upset a lot of apple carts who have spent a lot on str builds, but more over it makes dex way way to good.

I should move this to the closing the gap thread, but...

Right now stacking str is the solid single answer to both damage and hitting. This means with items that add 4, 5, 6, + str you end up with situations where a well equipped person just absoutley wipes out a monster in normal in a round.

If you moved hit away from str, and then massively increased ac as level increased, people would HAVE to back off of str to be able to hit. This would allow making hp closer between difficulties and decreasing the effect of someone over equipped running on normal.

Again putting aside the fact that I doubt people would enjoy being messed with so fundamentally. Sure moving hit off str would make str less valuable, but at that point stacking dex raises hit/ranged hit/ac/reflex save. It's a one stop shop for offense/defence/ and saves. You really don't see that as at all worse? Because to me alot of dex items suddenly start to look a lot more OP. I think at best you would shift the OP builds to being dex stack's, and at worst you would make a lot of larger buyers question their investment.

Here's the thing:

This exists today - it's called thrown weapons.

Do we see lots of builds stacking DEX and considering DEX items OP?

That was certainly an argument raised against Thor’s Hammer last year.

Well yes. There are at least some people (myself included) who consider throwing, if not ranged in general very OP. That said a OP throwing weapon existing is very different then applying a massive nerf to every existing str item. That in effect Grant's a promotional buff to every ranged build, and as mentioned, some of us already consider ranged quite strong (io's bow, and thor's hammer are arguably the best weapons in the game).

Picc wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Picc wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Picc wrote: I'm against moving hit from str to dex. For starters it would upset a lot of apple carts who have spent a lot on str builds, but more over it makes dex way way to good.

I should move this to the closing the gap thread, but...

Right now stacking str is the solid single answer to both damage and hitting. This means with items that add 4, 5, 6, + str you end up with situations where a well equipped person just absoutley wipes out a monster in normal in a round.

If you moved hit away from str, and then massively increased ac as level increased, people would HAVE to back off of str to be able to hit. This would allow making hp closer between difficulties and decreasing the effect of someone over equipped running on normal.

Again putting aside the fact that I doubt people would enjoy being messed with so fundamentally. Sure moving hit off str would make str less valuable, but at that point stacking dex raises hit/ranged hit/ac/reflex save. It's a one stop shop for offense/defence/ and saves. You really don't see that as at all worse? Because to me alot of dex items suddenly start to look a lot more OP. I think at best you would shift the OP builds to being dex stack's, and at worst you would make a lot of larger buyers question their investment.

Here's the thing:

This exists today - it's called thrown weapons.

Do we see lots of builds stacking DEX and considering DEX items OP?

That was certainly an argument raised against Thor’s Hammer last year.

Well yes. There are at least some people (myself included) who consider throwing, if not ranged in general very OP. That said a OP throwing weapon existing is very different then applying a massive nerf to every existing str item. That in effect Grant's a promotional buff to every ranged build, and as mentioned, some of us already consider ranged quite strong (io's bow, and thor's hammer are arguably the best weapons in the game).

We violently agree. Nerfing STR is a terrible idea.

...Anyhoo.

I wouldn't mind seeing another scroll modifier token of some sort. Personal choice would be something that grants a stat bonus to scroll damage & healing.

Hawk Fingle wrote: ...Anyhoo.

I wouldn't mind seeing another scroll modifier token of some sort. Personal choice would be something that grants a stat bonus to scroll damage & healing.

What about:

Charm of Inks
Up to 5 pts of Focus from other items can be applied to scrolls.
Usable by: Bard, Cleric, Druid, & Wizards

Xavon wrote:

Hawk Fingle wrote: ...Anyhoo.

I wouldn't mind seeing another scroll modifier token of some sort. Personal choice would be something that grants a stat bonus to scroll damage & healing.

What about:

Charm of Inks
Up to 5 pts of Focus from other items can be applied to scrolls.
Usable by: Bard, Cleric, Druid, & Wizards

I think anything that I would use on the offhand chance I might use a scroll would have to be spotless like the suggested magnifying glass.

Bob Chasan wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Hawk Fingle wrote: ...Anyhoo.

I wouldn't mind seeing another scroll modifier token of some sort. Personal choice would be something that grants a stat bonus to scroll damage & healing.

What about:

Charm of Inks
Up to 5 pts of Focus from other items can be applied to scrolls.
Usable by: Bard, Cleric, Druid, & Wizards

I think anything that I would use on the offhand chance I might use a scroll would have to be spotless like the suggested magnifying glass.

If you're focusing on spells from your card, then I agree I'd only equip it as slotless. But making it slotless just turns it into a straight-up must equip. If we ever want to go the route of trying to make a scroll-based build into a primary approach, you'd probably want to avoid tossing too many things slotless. How about an Ioun Stone?

I could see something like this turning into an interesting build when combined with Lenses of Sage Speed (or even the revised Lenses of Divine Sight), Greater Arcane Scroll Tube, and Cabal set.