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TOPIC: Transmute Ideas Please!

Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 4 months ago #193

Picc wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Picc wrote:

macXdmg wrote: The rare token thread gave me an idea I put there about a copper nugget upgraded rare te that could only be used with other nuggets. +1 treasure pull.


I like the idea, but likely a hard sell with charm of treasure boosting still in print next year.

My suggestion earlier in the thread was to use the charm of treasure boosting as an ingredient

Edit - call the transmute Ioun Stone Electrum Nugget.

These things write themselves


I think that would be an even harder sell, given the charm of treasure boosting was targeted at newer players I would be really surprised to see it become a component of another transmute the following year. Normally multi step transmutes like that are dropped within a single year. Still no one has has made the charm yet so as long as we were very up front about it would probably be ok, but then I would be tempted to keep the charm of treasure boosting in print until the stage two transmute rolled out.

To be fair, I don't think we are getting a new rare te next year. You might be right though that if there was one, perhaps you just have it stack with other ioun stones, let the charm boost it, and eventually people drop the charm but stick with the electrum stone
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 4 months ago #194

Yeah I keep forgetting that a single te gets +1 up to the URTE level with the charm. Forget it.
--
macXdmg
Monk of the Painda Order
Bard of the College of Sick Beats
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 4 months ago #195

Aothos wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Aothos wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: For Ranger

Relic Amulet of the Sharpshooter - Neck - All
+4 to DEX, +2 to ranged damage

Legendary - Heartseeker - Neck - Ranger
+6 to DEX, +4 to ranged damage, May re-use 1 ammo token for entire combat, your ranged attacks have the True Flight ability, (ignores cover and wind penalties to hit), you get a surprise attack on party initiative 15-20 (a'la Charm of Quick Strike)


I really like where this is going, but lets reign it in a little bit and cut down on how wordy it is.

Relic - Amulet of the Sharpshooter - Neck - Ranger
+3 to DEX, +2 to favored damage

Legendary - Heartseeker - Neck - Ranger
+5 to DEX, +4 to favored damage; ranged attacks have True Flight
(ignores cover and wind penalties to hit)

I feel like at the relic level is were we should start class limitations for class specific legendary path items, and I think increasing favored damage will appeal to a wider audience, while playing off the new items that Jeff has been implementing that increase the variety of favored enemies one can have.

We could also replace the True Flight section with 'Ranger's ignore damage reduction against their favored enemies/ and can always crit on their favored enemies regardless of types'.
This change would be a throwback to the fact that Rangers intensely study their favored enemies and a Paragon Ranger would know ways around a favored enemie's strengths as well as exploiting their weaknesses.


Hmm - Stu-Pendous Pendant gives +3 STR and DEX at UR, and the Exalted Creeper Amulet gives +4 DEX at Exalted (which is I think supposed to be between Rare and UR).

A relic should be 1 step better than a UR, so I think the minimum for a ranged Relic would be +4 or 5 DEX and something quite good - e.g. worth 3 STR or more.

It certainly is wordy and we could pare down if it's too good - but that bridge has been crossed, both the legendary Bard and Druid tokens just tell you to go to tokendb to read up on their abilities.

I don't feel too strongly, but it would be nice if the relic could be usable by all when it made sense (it didn't really make sense for the last batch as they hinged so heavily on class abilities for the Bard and Rogue ones). This is purely a practical concern - tokens that can only be used by one class are often in much less demand, and less valuable. It would help these tokens to appreciate and be available if the relic ones were good for everyone, even if they were better for the target class. I don't feel too strongly about that though.


I agree that the favored damage bonus is very underwhelming if the item doesnt also let you choose a new favored enemy. Of course, ive always felt that choosing a favored enemy could cause frustration (big bonus if you know what is coming, but without fore-knowledge it likely does nothing). Maybe these items can add a few new favored enemies that we have faced in the past; the relic could add giants & trolls; the legendary could add giants, trolls, dragons, outsiders, and spiders.

As for the relic only allowing the one class; i think they should be special to that class, even the relic level. And i think my monk idea didnt actually stick to that since i was designing off a thematic idea...maybe i will try and go back to work a more monk-focus ability on those (maybe that idea can just be some other 'all' transmute).


I'd definitely be open to adding some standard, non-theme, enemies to the roster. And after reviewing some favored enemy items I can definitely see giving that damage a boost.

Maybe something like:

UR - Amulet of the Agile Shot - Neck - Any
+3 Dex, +3 Ranged Damage

Relic - Amulet of the Sharpshooter - Neck - Ranger
+5 DEX, +5 to favored damage; +fav enemies (Giants, Fea, and Constructs)

Legendary - Heartseeker - Neck - Ranger
+7 to DEX, +7 to favored damage; ignore damage reduction/ crit block of favored enemies,
+fave enemies (Giants, Fea, Constructs, Dragons, Evil Outsiders, and Aberrations)


+1 Bump for this being the Ranger Class Item.
The topic has been locked.

Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 4 months ago #196

Rizzen wrote:

Aothos wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Aothos wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: For Ranger

Relic Amulet of the Sharpshooter - Neck - All
+4 to DEX, +2 to ranged damage

Legendary - Heartseeker - Neck - Ranger
+6 to DEX, +4 to ranged damage, May re-use 1 ammo token for entire combat, your ranged attacks have the True Flight ability, (ignores cover and wind penalties to hit), you get a surprise attack on party initiative 15-20 (a'la Charm of Quick Strike)


I really like where this is going, but lets reign it in a little bit and cut down on how wordy it is.

Relic - Amulet of the Sharpshooter - Neck - Ranger
+3 to DEX, +2 to favored damage

Legendary - Heartseeker - Neck - Ranger
+5 to DEX, +4 to favored damage; ranged attacks have True Flight
(ignores cover and wind penalties to hit)

I feel like at the relic level is were we should start class limitations for class specific legendary path items, and I think increasing favored damage will appeal to a wider audience, while playing off the new items that Jeff has been implementing that increase the variety of favored enemies one can have.

We could also replace the True Flight section with 'Ranger's ignore damage reduction against their favored enemies/ and can always crit on their favored enemies regardless of types'.
This change would be a throwback to the fact that Rangers intensely study their favored enemies and a Paragon Ranger would know ways around a favored enemie's strengths as well as exploiting their weaknesses.


Hmm - Stu-Pendous Pendant gives +3 STR and DEX at UR, and the Exalted Creeper Amulet gives +4 DEX at Exalted (which is I think supposed to be between Rare and UR).

A relic should be 1 step better than a UR, so I think the minimum for a ranged Relic would be +4 or 5 DEX and something quite good - e.g. worth 3 STR or more.

It certainly is wordy and we could pare down if it's too good - but that bridge has been crossed, both the legendary Bard and Druid tokens just tell you to go to tokendb to read up on their abilities.

I don't feel too strongly, but it would be nice if the relic could be usable by all when it made sense (it didn't really make sense for the last batch as they hinged so heavily on class abilities for the Bard and Rogue ones). This is purely a practical concern - tokens that can only be used by one class are often in much less demand, and less valuable. It would help these tokens to appreciate and be available if the relic ones were good for everyone, even if they were better for the target class. I don't feel too strongly about that though.


I agree that the favored damage bonus is very underwhelming if the item doesnt also let you choose a new favored enemy. Of course, ive always felt that choosing a favored enemy could cause frustration (big bonus if you know what is coming, but without fore-knowledge it likely does nothing). Maybe these items can add a few new favored enemies that we have faced in the past; the relic could add giants & trolls; the legendary could add giants, trolls, dragons, outsiders, and spiders.

As for the relic only allowing the one class; i think they should be special to that class, even the relic level. And i think my monk idea didnt actually stick to that since i was designing off a thematic idea...maybe i will try and go back to work a more monk-focus ability on those (maybe that idea can just be some other 'all' transmute).


I'd definitely be open to adding some standard, non-theme, enemies to the roster. And after reviewing some favored enemy items I can definitely see giving that damage a boost.

Maybe something like:

UR - Amulet of the Agile Shot - Neck - Any
+3 Dex, +3 Ranged Damage

Relic - Amulet of the Sharpshooter - Neck - Ranger
+5 DEX, +5 to favored damage; +fav enemies (Giants, Fea, and Constructs)

Legendary - Heartseeker - Neck - Ranger
+7 to DEX, +7 to favored damage; ignore damage reduction/ crit block of favored enemies,
+fave enemies (Giants, Fea, Constructs, Dragons, Evil Outsiders, and Aberrations)


+1 Bump for this being the Ranger Class Item.



Waaaay too overpowered.

Compare it to what the rogues got this year. Rogues can sneak attack 2x and get a better chance at a crit? Dexterity is the key stat for Rogues and they did not get any love.
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 4 months ago #197

Perhaps if you only looked and the favoured class bonus, then to would be reasonable... So far the class specific ones have focused in on the class abilities and not "even more" stat bumps...
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 4 months ago #198

Lordoftherealm wrote:

Rizzen wrote:

Aothos wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Aothos wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: For Ranger

Relic Amulet of the Sharpshooter - Neck - All
+4 to DEX, +2 to ranged damage

Legendary - Heartseeker - Neck - Ranger
+6 to DEX, +4 to ranged damage, May re-use 1 ammo token for entire combat, your ranged attacks have the True Flight ability, (ignores cover and wind penalties to hit), you get a surprise attack on party initiative 15-20 (a'la Charm of Quick Strike)


I really like where this is going, but lets reign it in a little bit and cut down on how wordy it is.

Relic - Amulet of the Sharpshooter - Neck - Ranger
+3 to DEX, +2 to favored damage

Legendary - Heartseeker - Neck - Ranger
+5 to DEX, +4 to favored damage; ranged attacks have True Flight
(ignores cover and wind penalties to hit)

I feel like at the relic level is were we should start class limitations for class specific legendary path items, and I think increasing favored damage will appeal to a wider audience, while playing off the new items that Jeff has been implementing that increase the variety of favored enemies one can have.

We could also replace the True Flight section with 'Ranger's ignore damage reduction against their favored enemies/ and can always crit on their favored enemies regardless of types'.
This change would be a throwback to the fact that Rangers intensely study their favored enemies and a Paragon Ranger would know ways around a favored enemie's strengths as well as exploiting their weaknesses.


Hmm - Stu-Pendous Pendant gives +3 STR and DEX at UR, and the Exalted Creeper Amulet gives +4 DEX at Exalted (which is I think supposed to be between Rare and UR).

A relic should be 1 step better than a UR, so I think the minimum for a ranged Relic would be +4 or 5 DEX and something quite good - e.g. worth 3 STR or more.

It certainly is wordy and we could pare down if it's too good - but that bridge has been crossed, both the legendary Bard and Druid tokens just tell you to go to tokendb to read up on their abilities.

I don't feel too strongly, but it would be nice if the relic could be usable by all when it made sense (it didn't really make sense for the last batch as they hinged so heavily on class abilities for the Bard and Rogue ones). This is purely a practical concern - tokens that can only be used by one class are often in much less demand, and less valuable. It would help these tokens to appreciate and be available if the relic ones were good for everyone, even if they were better for the target class. I don't feel too strongly about that though.


I agree that the favored damage bonus is very underwhelming if the item doesnt also let you choose a new favored enemy. Of course, ive always felt that choosing a favored enemy could cause frustration (big bonus if you know what is coming, but without fore-knowledge it likely does nothing). Maybe these items can add a few new favored enemies that we have faced in the past; the relic could add giants & trolls; the legendary could add giants, trolls, dragons, outsiders, and spiders.

As for the relic only allowing the one class; i think they should be special to that class, even the relic level. And i think my monk idea didnt actually stick to that since i was designing off a thematic idea...maybe i will try and go back to work a more monk-focus ability on those (maybe that idea can just be some other 'all' transmute).


I'd definitely be open to adding some standard, non-theme, enemies to the roster. And after reviewing some favored enemy items I can definitely see giving that damage a boost.

Maybe something like:

UR - Amulet of the Agile Shot - Neck - Any
+3 Dex, +3 Ranged Damage

Relic - Amulet of the Sharpshooter - Neck - Ranger
+5 DEX, +5 to favored damage; +fav enemies (Giants, Fea, and Constructs)

Legendary - Heartseeker - Neck - Ranger
+7 to DEX, +7 to favored damage; ignore damage reduction/ crit block of favored enemies,
+fave enemies (Giants, Fea, Constructs, Dragons, Evil Outsiders, and Aberrations)


+1 Bump for this being the Ranger Class Item.



Waaaay too overpowered.

Compare it to what the rogues got this year. Rogues can sneak attack 2x and get a better chance at a crit? Dexterity is the key stat for Rogues and they did not get any love.


I wouldn't be opposed to Jeff curving down or even removing the Dex bonus. I just wanted to design something that would get rangers to change up their current neck slot and that works for both types of Rangers.
The topic has been locked.

Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 4 months ago #199

Transmute chain for the Holy avenger - both levels add bonuses to Paladin Abilities

+3 Holy Avenger. Paladin Only
Damage wheel +1 over +2 Holy Avenger
Slay Evil Outsider on *
Lay on Hands heals 2 per box

+5 Holy Avenger
Damage wheel +2 over +3 Holy Avenger
Slay Evil Outsider on *
Lay on Hands heals 2 per box
Guard works against Ranged and Magic
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 4 months ago #200

Endgame wrote: Transmute chain for the Holy avenger - both levels add bonuses to Paladin Abilities

+3 Holy Avenger. Paladin Only
Damage wheel +1 over +2 Holy Avenger
Slay Evil Outsider on *
Lay on Hands heals 2 per box

+5 Holy Avenger
Damage wheel +2 over +3 Holy Avenger
Slay Evil Outsider on *
Lay on Hands heals 2 per box
Guard works against Ranged and Magic


In a lot of ways I still like the old holy sword with the blanket +3 against evil rather then it’s main effect usually only coming up every once in a great while. Or maybe increase the damage wheel by cooking in some sacred damage. If the legendary is truly paladin only then baking in sacred damage should be fine.
The topic has been locked.

Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 4 months ago #201

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Endgame wrote: Transmute chain for the Holy avenger - both levels add bonuses to Paladin Abilities

+3 Holy Avenger. Paladin Only
Damage wheel +1 over +2 Holy Avenger
Slay Evil Outsider on *
Lay on Hands heals 2 per box

+5 Holy Avenger
Damage wheel +2 over +3 Holy Avenger
Slay Evil Outsider on *
Lay on Hands heals 2 per box
Guard works against Ranged and Magic


In a lot of ways I still like the old holy sword with the blanket +3 against evil rather then it’s main effect usually only coming up every once in a great while. Or maybe increase the damage wheel by cooking in some sacred damage. If the legendary is truly paladin only then baking in sacred damage should be fine.

I don't think extra damage should be added beyond moving up for being +3 or +5 - if you want more damage, find a way to acquire Welfor's Slayer Sword. If you want class specific benefits, like better lay on hands and better guarding, take the Holy Avenger. No sense in power creeping damage if we don't have to, especially for a hybrid support / combat character.
The topic has been locked.

Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 4 months ago #202

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Endgame wrote: Transmute chain for the Holy avenger - both levels add bonuses to Paladin Abilities

+3 Holy Avenger. Paladin Only
Damage wheel +1 over +2 Holy Avenger
Slay Evil Outsider on *
Lay on Hands heals 2 per box

+5 Holy Avenger
Damage wheel +2 over +3 Holy Avenger
Slay Evil Outsider on *
Lay on Hands heals 2 per box
Guard works against Ranged and Magic


In a lot of ways I still like the old holy sword with the blanket +3 against evil rather then it’s main effect usually only coming up every once in a great while. Or maybe increase the damage wheel by cooking in some sacred damage. If the legendary is truly paladin only then baking in sacred damage should be fine.

I don't think extra damage should be added beyond moving up for being +3 or +5 - if you want more damage, find a way to acquire Welfor's Slayer Sword. If you want class specific benefits, like better lay on hands and better guarding, take the Holy Avenger. No sense in power creeping damage if we don't have to, especially for a hybrid support / combat character.


I was thinking of the way the extra damage is baked into the viper strike fangs.
tokendb.com/token/ashers-5-viper-strike-fang/
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 4 months ago #203

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Endgame wrote: Transmute chain for the Holy avenger - both levels add bonuses to Paladin Abilities

+3 Holy Avenger. Paladin Only
Damage wheel +1 over +2 Holy Avenger
Slay Evil Outsider on *
Lay on Hands heals 2 per box

+5 Holy Avenger
Damage wheel +2 over +3 Holy Avenger
Slay Evil Outsider on *
Lay on Hands heals 2 per box
Guard works against Ranged and Magic


In a lot of ways I still like the old holy sword with the blanket +3 against evil rather then it’s main effect usually only coming up every once in a great while. Or maybe increase the damage wheel by cooking in some sacred damage. If the legendary is truly paladin only then baking in sacred damage should be fine.

I don't think extra damage should be added beyond moving up for being +3 or +5 - if you want more damage, find a way to acquire Welfor's Slayer Sword. If you want class specific benefits, like better lay on hands and better guarding, take the Holy Avenger. No sense in power creeping damage if we don't have to, especially for a hybrid support / combat character.


I was thinking of the way the extra damage is baked into the viper strike fangs.
tokendb.com/token/ashers-5-viper-strike-fang/

Right, I understood your suggestion. The problem is, from a power creep perspective, that the +2 Holy Avenger is almost as damaging as the +2 Slayer Sword right now - wheel average is +.5 in the Slayer Sword's favor. From a maximum damage perspective, only one spot on the slayer sword has an advantage over the Holy Avenger and its only +3. If you baked in even +2 Sacred damage to the Holy Avenger, you would make it outright better than the Slayer Sword, thus creeping power even more.

If you leave the Holy Avenger at -.5 average damage and -3 max damage, there is at least a slight discussion to be had about using Welfors, though I imagine that 99% of Paladin players would prefer the extra class buffs over 3 max damage.
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Transmute Ideas Please! 1 year 4 months ago #204

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Endgame wrote: Transmute chain for the Holy avenger - both levels add bonuses to Paladin Abilities

+3 Holy Avenger. Paladin Only
Damage wheel +1 over +2 Holy Avenger
Slay Evil Outsider on *
Lay on Hands heals 2 per box

+5 Holy Avenger
Damage wheel +2 over +3 Holy Avenger
Slay Evil Outsider on *
Lay on Hands heals 2 per box
Guard works against Ranged and Magic


In a lot of ways I still like the old holy sword with the blanket +3 against evil rather then it’s main effect usually only coming up every once in a great while. Or maybe increase the damage wheel by cooking in some sacred damage. If the legendary is truly paladin only then baking in sacred damage should be fine.

I don't think extra damage should be added beyond moving up for being +3 or +5 - if you want more damage, find a way to acquire Welfor's Slayer Sword. If you want class specific benefits, like better lay on hands and better guarding, take the Holy Avenger. No sense in power creeping damage if we don't have to, especially for a hybrid support / combat character.


I was thinking of the way the extra damage is baked into the viper strike fangs.
tokendb.com/token/ashers-5-viper-strike-fang/

Right, I understood your suggestion. The problem is, from a power creep perspective, that the +2 Holy Avenger is almost as damaging as the +2 Slayer Sword right now - wheel average is +.5 in the Slayer Sword's favor. From a maximum damage perspective, only one spot on the slayer sword has an advantage over the Holy Avenger and its only +3. If you baked in even +2 Sacred damage to the Holy Avenger, you would make it outright better than the Slayer Sword, thus creeping power even more.

If you leave the Holy Avenger at -.5 average damage and -3 max damage, there is at least a slight discussion to be had about using Welfors, though I imagine that 99% of Paladin players would prefer the extra class buffs over 3 max damage.

As for the slayers sword, it would still be the best weapon for the rest of the classes that can use it, it just wouldn’t be better for 1 class. Also it will still be more flexible. Also the sacred damage could start the wheel higher but have the same end number.
I’m just not a big fan of the special condition, special monster kill tokens. I would rather it be a all around better weapon.
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