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TOPIC: Transmute Ideas Please!

Transmute Ideas Please! 4 months 3 days ago #157

Arnold wrote: With the proliferation of UR weapons that can't find a home, why not design an upgraded whetstone?

It could work similarly to Enchanted Whetstone but would apply to rare+ weapons. If we had to cap it at only applying to other UR weapons, so be it.

Part of the recipe would require that you turn in any UR weapon. The idea struck me when reading James & Wade's discussion of shields that they'd mulched. There seems like there are a lot of UR weapons out there that people would be willing to mulch just because UR weapons don't age well. Also- there already seems to be a glut of 2019 Crossbows and F(l)ails.

"Any UR weapon receives +1/+1"


Doesn’t sound outrageous to me. The tokendb.com/token/3-rod-of-niltongue/ required a UR weapon as an ingredient. I bet a lot of people would make this.
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Transmute Ideas Please! 4 months 3 days ago #158

Arnold wrote: With the proliferation of UR weapons that can't find a home, why not design an upgraded whetstone?

It could work similarly to Enchanted Whetstone but would apply to rare+ weapons. If we had to cap it at only applying to other UR weapons, so be it.

Part of the recipe would require that you turn in any UR weapon. The idea struck me when reading James & Wade's discussion of shields that they'd mulched. There seems like there are a lot of UR weapons out there that people would be willing to mulch just because UR weapons don't age well. Also- there already seems to be a glut of 2019 Crossbows and F(l)ails.

"Any UR weapon receives +1/+1"

A transmute to make the normal Whetstone a Relic Whetstone that worked on URs would be pretty cool. Would that obsolete any particular Relic weapons, though? I can't say I'm very familiar with the range of Relic weapons, outside of the Baton of Focus, and I'd rather have a Relic baton over a UR baton, just for the extra +1 to heals.

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Transmute Ideas Please! 4 months 3 days ago #159

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Arnold wrote: With the proliferation of UR weapons that can't find a home, why not design an upgraded whetstone?

It could work similarly to Enchanted Whetstone but would apply to rare+ weapons. If we had to cap it at only applying to other UR weapons, so be it.

Part of the recipe would require that you turn in any UR weapon. The idea struck me when reading James & Wade's discussion of shields that they'd mulched. There seems like there are a lot of UR weapons out there that people would be willing to mulch just because UR weapons don't age well. Also- there already seems to be a glut of 2019 Crossbows and F(l)ails.

"Any UR weapon receives +1/+1"


Doesn’t sound outrageous to me. The tokendb.com/token/3-rod-of-niltongue/ required a UR weapon as an ingredient. I bet a lot of people would make this.


I’d be in favor in principle, maybe just make it a +1/+1 across the board and make a rule saying you can only use one Whetstone.
The reason I’m saying across the board is because if we bump up UR weapons then we make relics worse then that are today just like the Enchanted Whetstone did to URs, if the new Whetstone helped relics and URs but not legendary weapons you would still have a similar devaluation of legendary tokens.

I think it would be good if TD wants to keep printing URs weapons to make them clearly better than rare weapons, and right now Enchanted Whetstone makes many rares better or close to as good as URs.
Heck they could make Enchanted Whetstone be part of the recipe for the “Greater Enchanted Whetstone“ since that’s what it’s name would likely be if made.

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Transmute Ideas Please! 4 months 3 days ago #160

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Arnold wrote: With the proliferation of UR weapons that can't find a home, why not design an upgraded whetstone?

It could work similarly to Enchanted Whetstone but would apply to rare+ weapons. If we had to cap it at only applying to other UR weapons, so be it.

Part of the recipe would require that you turn in any UR weapon. The idea struck me when reading James & Wade's discussion of shields that they'd mulched. There seems like there are a lot of UR weapons out there that people would be willing to mulch just because UR weapons don't age well. Also- there already seems to be a glut of 2019 Crossbows and F(l)ails.

"Any UR weapon receives +1/+1"


Doesn’t sound outrageous to me. The tokendb.com/token/3-rod-of-niltongue/ required a UR weapon as an ingredient. I bet a lot of people would make this.

Turn every UR into a Relic level weapon? Yeah, I would say so.
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Transmute Ideas Please! 4 months 3 days ago #161

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Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d be in favor in principle, maybe just make it a +1/+1 across the board and make a rule saying you can only use one Whetstone.
The reason I’m saying across the board is because if we bump up UR weapons then we make relics worse then that are today just like the Enchanted Whetstone did to URs, if the new Whetstone helped relics and URs but not legendary weapons you would still have a similar devaluation of legendary tokens.

I think it would be good if TD wants to keep printing URs weapons to make them clearly better than rare weapons, and right now Enchanted Whetstone makes many rares better or close to as good as URs.
Heck they could make Enchanted Whetstone be part of the recipe for the “Greater Enchanted Whetstone“ since that’s what it’s name would likely be if made.


Would you have to make this wetstone a legendary so it is timeless? Or at least keep bringing it back every few years? Not certain just asking the question.
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Transmute Ideas Please! 4 months 3 days ago #162

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Arnold wrote: With the proliferation of UR weapons that can't find a home, why not design an upgraded whetstone?

It could work similarly to Enchanted Whetstone but would apply to rare+ weapons. If we had to cap it at only applying to other UR weapons, so be it.

Part of the recipe would require that you turn in any UR weapon. The idea struck me when reading James & Wade's discussion of shields that they'd mulched. There seems like there are a lot of UR weapons out there that people would be willing to mulch just because UR weapons don't age well. Also- there already seems to be a glut of 2019 Crossbows and F(l)ails.

"Any UR weapon receives +1/+1"


Doesn’t sound outrageous to me. The tokendb.com/token/3-rod-of-niltongue/ required a UR weapon as an ingredient. I bet a lot of people would make this.


I’d be in favor in principle, maybe just make it a +1/+1 across the board and make a rule saying you can only use one Whetstone.
The reason I’m saying across the board is because if we bump up UR weapons then we make relics worse then that are today just like the Enchanted Whetstone did to URs, if the new Whetstone helped relics and URs but not legendary weapons you would still have a similar devaluation of legendary tokens.

I think it would be good if TD wants to keep printing URs weapons to make them clearly better than rare weapons, and right now Enchanted Whetstone makes many rares better or close to as good as URs.
Heck they could make Enchanted Whetstone be part of the recipe for the “Greater Enchanted Whetstone“ since that’s what it’s name would likely be if made.


It depends on the rare vs UR weapon, right? A lot of the old UR weapons were just generic +2 weapons, so it is not surprise that the whetstone makes them obsolete.

The +2 Deadly Drow Blood Mace, is still better than a whetstone applied to a +1 Drow Blood mace, even if the damage wheel is similar. A +2 Baton of focus is way better than a whetstone applied to a rare Baton of Focus. In turn, a Whetstone +2 baton of focus still isn't as good as a relic +3 baton of focus.

Another option, is add a final boss immune to +1 weapons at Hardcore + difficulty. That would make even a bad UR still better than a rare w/ Whetstone.

*Edit* for complete laughs, after playing Baulders Gate where a number of bosses are Immune to Magic Weapons, make the final boss in epic immune to magic weapons. Break out the normal weapon if you want to do damage.

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Last edit: by Endgame.

Transmute Ideas Please! 4 months 3 days ago #163

jedibcg wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I’d be in favor in principle, maybe just make it a +1/+1 across the board and make a rule saying you can only use one Whetstone.
The reason I’m saying across the board is because if we bump up UR weapons then we make relics worse then that are today just like the Enchanted Whetstone did to URs, if the new Whetstone helped relics and URs but not legendary weapons you would still have a similar devaluation of legendary tokens.

I think it would be good if TD wants to keep printing URs weapons to make them clearly better than rare weapons, and right now Enchanted Whetstone makes many rares better or close to as good as URs.
Heck they could make Enchanted Whetstone be part of the recipe for the “Greater Enchanted Whetstone“ since that’s what it’s name would likely be if made.


Would you have to make this wetstone a legendary so it is timeless? Or at least keep bringing it back every few years? Not certain just asking the question.

I think if it’s a relic or legendary it’s almost locked down in time. If it were done as a UR it could be printed every 5 years or so.

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Transmute Ideas Please! 4 months 3 days ago #164

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Arnold wrote: With the proliferation of UR weapons that can't find a home, why not design an upgraded whetstone?

It could work similarly to Enchanted Whetstone but would apply to rare+ weapons. If we had to cap it at only applying to other UR weapons, so be it.

Part of the recipe would require that you turn in any UR weapon. The idea struck me when reading James & Wade's discussion of shields that they'd mulched. There seems like there are a lot of UR weapons out there that people would be willing to mulch just because UR weapons don't age well. Also- there already seems to be a glut of 2019 Crossbows and F(l)ails.

"Any UR weapon receives +1/+1"


Doesn’t sound outrageous to me. The tokendb.com/token/3-rod-of-niltongue/ required a UR weapon as an ingredient. I bet a lot of people would make this.


I’d be in favor in principle, maybe just make it a +1/+1 across the board and make a rule saying you can only use one Whetstone.
The reason I’m saying across the board is because if we bump up UR weapons then we make relics worse then that are today just like the Enchanted Whetstone did to URs, if the new Whetstone helped relics and URs but not legendary weapons you would still have a similar devaluation of legendary tokens.

I think it would be good if TD wants to keep printing URs weapons to make them clearly better than rare weapons, and right now Enchanted Whetstone makes many rares better or close to as good as URs.
Heck they could make Enchanted Whetstone be part of the recipe for the “Greater Enchanted Whetstone“ since that’s what it’s name would likely be if made.


It depends on the rare vs UR weapon, right? A lot of the old UR weapons were just generic +2 weapons, so it is not surprise that the whetstone makes them obsolete.

The +2 Deadly Drow Blood Mace, is still better than a whetstone applied to a +1 Drow Blood mace, even if the damage wheel is similar. A +2 Baton of focus is way better than a whetstone applied to a rare Baton of Focus. In turn, a Whetstone +2 baton of focus still isn't as good as a relic +3 baton of focus.

Another option, is add a final boss immune to +1 weapons at Hardcore + difficulty. That would make even a bad UR still better than a rare w/ Whetstone.


I am not in favor of bosses being immune to +1 weapons at hardcore because many groups that are otherwise equipped well for hardcore would have a negative experience with that, that said I would support that idea on nightmare and epic in principle. I could see some monk and poly-Druid questions that might need to be hammered out still.

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Transmute Ideas Please! 4 months 3 days ago #165

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Arnold wrote: With the proliferation of UR weapons that can't find a home, why not design an upgraded whetstone?

It could work similarly to Enchanted Whetstone but would apply to rare+ weapons. If we had to cap it at only applying to other UR weapons, so be it.

Part of the recipe would require that you turn in any UR weapon. The idea struck me when reading James & Wade's discussion of shields that they'd mulched. There seems like there are a lot of UR weapons out there that people would be willing to mulch just because UR weapons don't age well. Also- there already seems to be a glut of 2019 Crossbows and F(l)ails.

"Any UR weapon receives +1/+1"


Doesn’t sound outrageous to me. The tokendb.com/token/3-rod-of-niltongue/ required a UR weapon as an ingredient. I bet a lot of people would make this.

Turn every UR into a Relic level weapon? Yeah, I would say so.


But it wouldn’t, not really. Modern relic weapons have additional powers, like extra focus and expanded crit ranges. They’d still be superior to, or at least competitive with a UR with an extra +1/+1. (There may be some exceptions)

Whether it’s balanced or not depends a lot on the recipe.

I’ve been thinking about the argument for a min DEX for Thor’s, so I’m thinking maybe this Whetstone should have a max STR to avoid stratospheric melee modifiers. (Absolutely NOT a min DEX; that only penalizes Clerics, who aren’t typically the problem)
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Last edit: by Brad Mortensen.

Transmute Ideas Please! 4 months 3 days ago #166

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Arnold wrote: With the proliferation of UR weapons that can't find a home, why not design an upgraded whetstone?

It could work similarly to Enchanted Whetstone but would apply to rare+ weapons. If we had to cap it at only applying to other UR weapons, so be it.

Part of the recipe would require that you turn in any UR weapon. The idea struck me when reading James & Wade's discussion of shields that they'd mulched. There seems like there are a lot of UR weapons out there that people would be willing to mulch just because UR weapons don't age well. Also- there already seems to be a glut of 2019 Crossbows and F(l)ails.

"Any UR weapon receives +1/+1"


Doesn’t sound outrageous to me. The tokendb.com/token/3-rod-of-niltongue/ required a UR weapon as an ingredient. I bet a lot of people would make this.


I’d be in favor in principle, maybe just make it a +1/+1 across the board and make a rule saying you can only use one Whetstone.
The reason I’m saying across the board is because if we bump up UR weapons then we make relics worse then that are today just like the Enchanted Whetstone did to URs, if the new Whetstone helped relics and URs but not legendary weapons you would still have a similar devaluation of legendary tokens.

I think it would be good if TD wants to keep printing URs weapons to make them clearly better than rare weapons, and right now Enchanted Whetstone makes many rares better or close to as good as URs.
Heck they could make Enchanted Whetstone be part of the recipe for the “Greater Enchanted Whetstone“ since that’s what it’s name would likely be if made.


It depends on the rare vs UR weapon, right? A lot of the old UR weapons were just generic +2 weapons, so it is not surprise that the whetstone makes them obsolete.

The +2 Deadly Drow Blood Mace, is still better than a whetstone applied to a +1 Drow Blood mace, even if the damage wheel is similar. A +2 Baton of focus is way better than a whetstone applied to a rare Baton of Focus. In turn, a Whetstone +2 baton of focus still isn't as good as a relic +3 baton of focus.

Another option, is add a final boss immune to +1 weapons at Hardcore + difficulty. That would make even a bad UR still better than a rare w/ Whetstone.


I am not in favor of bosses being immune to +1 weapons at hardcore because many groups that are otherwise equipped well for hardcore would have a negative experience with that, that said I would support that idea on nightmare and epic in principle. I could see some monk and poly-Druid questions that might need to be hammered out still.

5th level monks already count as +4 weapons when using flurry of blows. I have no idea how poly druid works when it comes to magic weapons.

I was told that my Baton of Focus could not damage one of the 2017 monsters on normal (stone golem or similar) so I think the precedent for weapon immunity has already been set?

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Transmute Ideas Please! 4 months 3 days ago #167

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Arnold wrote: With the proliferation of UR weapons that can't find a home, why not design an upgraded whetstone?

It could work similarly to Enchanted Whetstone but would apply to rare+ weapons. If we had to cap it at only applying to other UR weapons, so be it.

Part of the recipe would require that you turn in any UR weapon. The idea struck me when reading James & Wade's discussion of shields that they'd mulched. There seems like there are a lot of UR weapons out there that people would be willing to mulch just because UR weapons don't age well. Also- there already seems to be a glut of 2019 Crossbows and F(l)ails.

"Any UR weapon receives +1/+1"


Doesn’t sound outrageous to me. The tokendb.com/token/3-rod-of-niltongue/ required a UR weapon as an ingredient. I bet a lot of people would make this.


I’d be in favor in principle, maybe just make it a +1/+1 across the board and make a rule saying you can only use one Whetstone.
The reason I’m saying across the board is because if we bump up UR weapons then we make relics worse then that are today just like the Enchanted Whetstone did to URs, if the new Whetstone helped relics and URs but not legendary weapons you would still have a similar devaluation of legendary tokens.

I think it would be good if TD wants to keep printing URs weapons to make them clearly better than rare weapons, and right now Enchanted Whetstone makes many rares better or close to as good as URs.
Heck they could make Enchanted Whetstone be part of the recipe for the “Greater Enchanted Whetstone“ since that’s what it’s name would likely be if made.


It depends on the rare vs UR weapon, right? A lot of the old UR weapons were just generic +2 weapons, so it is not surprise that the whetstone makes them obsolete.

The +2 Deadly Drow Blood Mace, is still better than a whetstone applied to a +1 Drow Blood mace, even if the damage wheel is similar. A +2 Baton of focus is way better than a whetstone applied to a rare Baton of Focus. In turn, a Whetstone +2 baton of focus still isn't as good as a relic +3 baton of focus.

Another option, is add a final boss immune to +1 weapons at Hardcore + difficulty. That would make even a bad UR still better than a rare w/ Whetstone.


I am not in favor of bosses being immune to +1 weapons at hardcore because many groups that are otherwise equipped well for hardcore would have a negative experience with that, that said I would support that idea on nightmare and epic in principle. I could see some monk and poly-Druid questions that might need to be hammered out still.

5th level monks already count as +4 weapons when using flurry of blows. I have no idea how poly druid works when it comes to magic weapons.

I was told that my Baton of Focus could not damage one of the 2017 monsters on normal (stone golem or similar) so I think the precedent for weapon immunity has already been set?


Baton of Focus is not a magical weapon in terms of direct attacks. If the monster was immune to non-magical weapons, the attack would have been a failure.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 

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Transmute Ideas Please! 4 months 3 days ago #168

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Arnold wrote: With the proliferation of UR weapons that can't find a home, why not design an upgraded whetstone?

It could work similarly to Enchanted Whetstone but would apply to rare+ weapons. If we had to cap it at only applying to other UR weapons, so be it.

Part of the recipe would require that you turn in any UR weapon. The idea struck me when reading James & Wade's discussion of shields that they'd mulched. There seems like there are a lot of UR weapons out there that people would be willing to mulch just because UR weapons don't age well. Also- there already seems to be a glut of 2019 Crossbows and F(l)ails.

"Any UR weapon receives +1/+1"


Doesn’t sound outrageous to me. The tokendb.com/token/3-rod-of-niltongue/ required a UR weapon as an ingredient. I bet a lot of people would make this.


I’d be in favor in principle, maybe just make it a +1/+1 across the board and make a rule saying you can only use one Whetstone.
The reason I’m saying across the board is because if we bump up UR weapons then we make relics worse then that are today just like the Enchanted Whetstone did to URs, if the new Whetstone helped relics and URs but not legendary weapons you would still have a similar devaluation of legendary tokens.

I think it would be good if TD wants to keep printing URs weapons to make them clearly better than rare weapons, and right now Enchanted Whetstone makes many rares better or close to as good as URs.
Heck they could make Enchanted Whetstone be part of the recipe for the “Greater Enchanted Whetstone“ since that’s what it’s name would likely be if made.


It depends on the rare vs UR weapon, right? A lot of the old UR weapons were just generic +2 weapons, so it is not surprise that the whetstone makes them obsolete.

The +2 Deadly Drow Blood Mace, is still better than a whetstone applied to a +1 Drow Blood mace, even if the damage wheel is similar. A +2 Baton of focus is way better than a whetstone applied to a rare Baton of Focus. In turn, a Whetstone +2 baton of focus still isn't as good as a relic +3 baton of focus.

Another option, is add a final boss immune to +1 weapons at Hardcore + difficulty. That would make even a bad UR still better than a rare w/ Whetstone.


I am not in favor of bosses being immune to +1 weapons at hardcore because many groups that are otherwise equipped well for hardcore would have a negative experience with that, that said I would support that idea on nightmare and epic in principle. I could see some monk and poly-Druid questions that might need to be hammered out still.

5th level monks already count as +4 weapons when using flurry of blows. I have no idea how poly druid works when it comes to magic weapons.

I was told that my Baton of Focus could not damage one of the 2017 monsters on normal (stone golem or similar) so I think the precedent for weapon immunity has already been set?


Baton of Focus is not a magical weapon in terms of direct attacks. If the monster was immune to non-magical weapons, the attack would have been a failure.

Yes - if normal is allowed to have weapon immunity to non magical weapon, where players might be playing with 1 booster, I think that would be enough precedent to set hardcore to have a boss be immune to +1 weapons.

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