TOPIC: Ultra Rare Token Ideas

macXdmg wrote: So thematically I like the idea of a one handed ranged hand cannon, maybe a six shooter like Percy or Indy.

Magical quick shot hand cannon : +1 to hit 3/5/7/9/10 (All except Druid and Barbarian) 1 handed ranged weapon

It’s awkward (not the usual 4/6/8/10 space weapon ring. It doesn’t use normal ammo. It is awkward for class usage as it is a city weapon. Urban ranger look it up. It fits in the Totally Not Dr Indiana themed run, doubly so if there were whips.

We've had some guns before in TD. This one is less powerful, but also removes the failures. If the class list was more restricted, it might be fine, but the damage wheel is a bit high for a one-handed ranged weapon usable by all.

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: +2 Sword of the Meek - 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 - Barbarian, Bard, Fighters, Paladin, Ranger
Requires 19 or less STR

Build your character with a different weapon and then switch to this in combat? Also, likely to add complexity to all future balancing discussions.

Cheaters gonna cheat - the DM can’t know I qualify for MeC, the Legendary Bow, or other stat restricted tokens - nor can they know that you equipped a +1 Faerie Iron Skull as a ranged weapon to get +1 to hit and STR bonus from thrown weapon on the damage box but am now sliding a +1 Bliss Long Bow. In short - "because people might cheat with stat limiting tokens" does not appear to be a reason to not print them.


Could you amplify the balancing concerns?

Compare with Viper Strike Fang (which is admittedly very good):

1. Does +2 more damage.
2. Doesn't have 2 conditional damage baked into the wheel (although I'm skeptical this -2 is routinely applied by combat DMs for poison immune monsters).
3. Doesn't participate in a set bonus that gets +2 to hit and other random goodies.
4. Usable by fewer classes, can't be used in Ranger offhand, can't be used by Monk at all.
5. No transmute path.
6. The biggie - a 19 STR cap in an environment where any class can get to 20 or more STR with readily available rares and uncommons.

I think on balance VSF is better than this token.

Brokkr wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Charm of Poverty - At start, sacrifice a treasure draw to add +1 to one of melee, ranged, or spell damage, limit 3

Or:

Charm of Poverty - If your treasure total is:
4-9: +2 to melee, ranged, spell damage
3 or less: +3 to melee, ranged, spell damage

Would the charms be usable in grind since there isn't any treasure anyway?

There is treasure in grind - 1.

I’d say yes, but grind is (I assume) free to maintain its own ban / errata list if it wants.

macXdmg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Guttersnipe's Locket - Neck - All

+3 STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA if your treasure draw is 3.

3 or 3 or less?

I could see either way: exactly 3 to keep it out of grind, or 3 or less to future proof it in case we ever alter basic Dungeon treasure?

I like exactly 3 for symmetry reasons and if we’re playing around in this design space it created a fun puzzle - like if there was a token that let you sacrifice draws for a benefit, then you could wear a treasure booster, the sac treasure token, and this and arrange to have your total be 3.

macXdmg wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Charm of Poverty - At start, sacrifice a treasure draw to add +1 to one of melee, ranged, or spell damage, limit 3

Or:

Charm of Poverty - If your treasure total is:
4-9: +2 to melee, ranged, spell damage
3 or less: +3 to melee, ranged, spell damage

I like the first version, there are probably players that have no interest in pulls. Maybe make it a common?

There is an interesting game mechanic for those that like treasure, and get 20+ pulls that would make this too powerful as a common. Especially the first one.

It does have a limit of 3, so it wouldn't matter if you had more than 3 treasure pulls, you could only convert three of them. I like it at common because the people most likely use it are ones that have probably never bought an Ultra-Rare. I doubt many people who have a bunch of TE tokens would ever use it - we like our treasure too much.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: +2 Sword of the Meek - 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 - Barbarian, Bard, Fighters, Paladin, Ranger
Requires 19 or less STR

Build your character with a different weapon and then switch to this in combat? Also, likely to add complexity to all future balancing discussions.

Cheaters gonna cheat - the DM can’t know I qualify for the Legendary Bow or other stat restricted tokens. That’s not a reason to not do something like this.

Could you amplify the balancing concerns? The wheel is only +2 over the Vioer Strike Fang and it cant participate in a set bonus, so I don’t think it’s too far off of what we’ve already seen and not being able to use with high str is a massive drawback (easy to get to 20 Str or more for all classes with readily available UCs and Rares).

Keep in mind that we have items that give direct melee to-hit and damage bonuses. So those have to be taken into account as well. And if we make a weapon like this, we have to keep it in mind in any future balance discussion of future melee to-hit and damage bonuses. I'm not saying it breaks things, I'm just saying it'll add a corner case that'll need to be kept in mind.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Charm of Poverty - At start, sacrifice a treasure draw to add +1 to one of melee, ranged, or spell damage, limit 3

Or:

Charm of Poverty - If your treasure total is:
4-9: +2 to melee, ranged, spell damage
3 or less: +3 to melee, ranged, spell damage

I like the design space this opens up and I think the latter option is more friendly to newer players.

But just imagine all the feel bad when someone pulls this token, sacrafices their treasure, then watches someone get 19 or 20 from the same run

Humble Charm or Charm of Humility would likely be a better name. In the above situation the person would probably feel a bit insulted after realizing they are treasure poor, and poor people dont like being called poor.

Once again, I do like the concept.

Assuming Tome is slotted:

Bartleby's Bestiary - Tome - Bard

If you pass the Bardic Lore check, Bardsong gains +1/+1 for remainder of room 1/room

If not, maybe a figurine (1/game instead of 1/room)

Ring of Improvisation - Finger - Bard, Rogue

You may equip 1 additional common, uncommon, or rare token that does not impact the party card or manipulate slots beyond what you normally could.

(Note: this does not allow you to play multiple instruments at once).

Matthew Galambus wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Charm of Poverty - At start, sacrifice a treasure draw to add +1 to one of melee, ranged, or spell damage, limit 3

Or:

Charm of Poverty - If your treasure total is:
4-9: +2 to melee, ranged, spell damage
3 or less: +3 to melee, ranged, spell damage

I like the design space this opens up and I think the latter option is more friendly to newer players.

But just imagine all the feel bad when someone pulls this token, sacrafices their treasure, then watches someone get 19 or 20 from the same run

Humble Charm or Charm of Humility would likely be a better name. In the above situation the person would probably feel a bit insulted after realizing they are treasure poor, and poor people dont like being called poor.

Once again, I do like the concept.

Initially I liked this idea, but the more I think about it the more I feel like you're right and it may just lead to hears feelings no matter how we slice it. If the rarity is anything significant its also going to be subject to the same "will be replaces quickly" arguments as the charm of treasure boosting. Not saying it's a bad idea, let's just try to think through the social interaction part too and proceed with caution.

Assuming tome is a limited slot:

Caleb's Guide to Celeritous Healing - Tome - Cleric

The target of your single-target healing spell may take a free action as if it were an immediate action. 1/room

(Note: The recipient's action must be taken that round, or it is lost, the action can't be "banked".)

Prismatix Armor - Torso - All but Monks and Wizards
+6 AC, reflect ray attack back at enemy 1/game

+2 Victrix - Mainhands (two handed) - Barbarian, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin
3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, *9*, *10*
Any 20 kills Ghost, Spirit, Specter, or Wraith if *9*, *10* is damage dot
(Spear - compound ranged/thrown)

+2 Vorpal Sword - Mainhand - Fighter
3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12
1/game Declare you are attempting to decapitate monster, slide 20 to succeed
(Only works on enemies you could critical, and that have a head, and only one head)

+2 Acid Whip - Mainhand - All
5, 6, 7, 8
2 pts acid baked into damage wheel
On successful hit enemy must make reflex save vs. wielder's to-hit bonus or drop its weapon 1/combat

Shield of Deflection - Offhand - Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighters, Paladin
+2 AC, First melee attack that would hit wielder suffers 50% miss chance 1/game

Ring of Truesight - Finger - All
Same as Lense of Clear Sight - just different slot.