TOPIC: Uncommon Token Suggestions

You didn’t answer my question. Nor fully read what I wrote apparently. I said if it is equal to the UR then you have proven that UC seems appropriate, but at the same time you prove if it is better than the UR Rare seems appropriate. You never demostrated a UC better than a UR only an UC equal or lesser. You demostrated Rares that were better. So make it equal or worse than the UR at Uncommon or leave it at 2 scrolls with a standard action (better than the UR) and move it to rare.
As to why a UC shouldn’t be more powerful that UC’s before it. Power Creep.

jedibcg wrote: You didn’t answer my question. Nor fully read what I wrote apparently. I said if it is equal to the UR then you have proven that UC seems appropriate, but at the same time you prove if it is better than the UR Rare seems appropriate. You never demostrated a UC better than a UR only an UC equal or lesser. You demostrated Rares that were better. So make it equal or worse than the UR at Uncommon or leave it at 2 scrolls with a standard action (better than the UR) and move it to rare.
As to why a UC shouldn’t be more powerful that UC’s before it. Power Creep.

I’m sorry I wasn’t able to answer your question to your satisfaction. I did ready your statement carefully - I guess we’re just not communicating well.

In any case:

Potion bulls strength has double the effect of highly desirable ur ioun Stone onyx cube.

It also has a superior effect to best in slot at ur contender waist Girdle of Stone giant strength.

It is therefore demonstrated that uncommon potions can, and do, grant superior effects than even highly desirable urs.

You seem hung up on this “ability” versus “stats” distinction.

I have not seen any reason or argument why this distinction is relevant in determining an answer to the question:

“can a uc potion provide a superior effect to a ur?”

The answer to that question is clearly yes, as demonstrated by bulls strength, which has been reprinted several times, and which at no point has drawn substantial criticisms for being too powerful.

At this point I think I’ve laid out my idea and rationale as clearly as I’m able, and am just repeating myself, so going to let what I’ve said stand.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

jedibcg wrote: You didn’t answer my question. Nor fully read what I wrote apparently. I said if it is equal to the UR then you have proven that UC seems appropriate, but at the same time you prove if it is better than the UR Rare seems appropriate. You never demostrated a UC better than a UR only an UC equal or lesser. You demostrated Rares that were better. So make it equal or worse than the UR at Uncommon or leave it at 2 scrolls with a standard action (better than the UR) and move it to rare.
As to why a UC shouldn’t be more powerful that UC’s before it. Power Creep.

I’m sorry I wasn’t able to answer your question to your satisfaction.

In any case:

Potion bulls strength has double the effect of highly desirable ur ioun Stone onyx cube.

It also has a superior effect to best in slot contender waist Girdle of Stone giant strength.

It is therefore demonstrated that uncommon potions can, and do, grant superior effects than even highly desirable urs.

You seem hung up on this “ability” versus “stats” distinction.

I have not seen any reason or argument why this distinction is relevant in determining an answer to the question: “can a uc potion provide a superior effect to a ur?”

At this point I think I’ve laid out my idea and rationale as clearly as I’m able, and am just repeating myself, so going to let what I’ve said stand.

Not certain why you think I am hung up. I mentioned nothing about it in my last post. Stone onyx cube is Volunteer token. I don't feel it is a fair comparison. Part of the reason it is desirable is because it is a volunteer token. I agree you found one old token which now has the same affect as a Exalted token. Still fells like that is less than UR power to me. Most of the examples you originally provided were rares exceeding the power of UR's. That feels like what this potion should. I am fine that we disagree on this.

jedibcg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

jedibcg wrote: You didn’t answer my question. Nor fully read what I wrote apparently. I said if it is equal to the UR then you have proven that UC seems appropriate, but at the same time you prove if it is better than the UR Rare seems appropriate. You never demostrated a UC better than a UR only an UC equal or lesser. You demostrated Rares that were better. So make it equal or worse than the UR at Uncommon or leave it at 2 scrolls with a standard action (better than the UR) and move it to rare.
As to why a UC shouldn’t be more powerful that UC’s before it. Power Creep.

I’m sorry I wasn’t able to answer your question to your satisfaction.

In any case:

Potion bulls strength has double the effect of highly desirable ur ioun Stone onyx cube.

It also has a superior effect to best in slot contender waist Girdle of Stone giant strength.

It is therefore demonstrated that uncommon potions can, and do, grant superior effects than even highly desirable urs.

You seem hung up on this “ability” versus “stats” distinction.

I have not seen any reason or argument why this distinction is relevant in determining an answer to the question: “can a uc potion provide a superior effect to a ur?”

At this point I think I’ve laid out my idea and rationale as clearly as I’m able, and am just repeating myself, so going to let what I’ve said stand.

Not certain why you think I am hung up. I mentioned nothing about it in my last post. Stone onyx cube is Volunteer token. I don't feel it is a fair comparison. Part of the reason it is desirable is because it is a volunteer token. I agree you found one old token which now has the same affect as a Exalted token. Still fells like that is less than UR power to me. Most of the examples you originally provided were rares exceeding the power of UR's. That feels like what this potion should. I am fine that we disagree on this.

Sorry to continue after saying I checked out - but wanted to clarify my mistake here.

I thought you were hung up on ability versus stat because I thought you were saying something like “it hasn’t been demonstrated that uc potions which grant abilities can provide a superior effect to a ur that grants a similar ability, and this fact is relevant to determining the appropriate power level of this token.”

If that wasn’t what you were arguing then I misunderstood.

I imagined that was your point because I thought it followed logically from a few other points we’d both made - that we should probably hash out face to face to make progress on.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Sorry to continue after saying I checked out - but wanted to clarify my mistake here.

I thought you were hung up on ability versus stat because I thought you were saying something like “it hasn’t been demonstrated that uc potions which grant abilities can provide a superior effect to a ur that grants a similar ability, and this fact is relevant to determining the appropriate power level of this token.”

If that wasn’t what you were arguing then I misunderstood.

I imagined that was your point because I thought it followed logically from a few other points we’d both made - that we should probably hash out face to face to make progress on.

I was my originally a point until you demonstrated otherwise. I left it behind afterwards because I felt you demonstrated it shouldn't matter. I did not bring it up again after that.

Masterwork Quarterstaff - Two-handed, Useable by any class, 1 2 4 4 5 6, +1 to hit, Monk can Flurry w/another Masterwork Quarterstaff.

Xavon wrote: Soul Jar Diadem
As a ghost, you may continue to interact with other players and puzzles and do 1 pt of either Darkrift or Sacred damage to one monster each round of combat.
Usable by: All

Soul Jar minimus As a ghost, you may continue to interact with other players and puzzles without speech.

macXdmg wrote:

Xavon wrote: Soul Jar Diadem
As a ghost, you may continue to interact with other players and puzzles and do 1 pt of either Darkrift or Sacred damage to one monster each round of combat.
Usable by: All

Soul Jar minimus As a ghost, you may continue to interact with other players and puzzles without speech.

Which slot?

Xavon wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

Xavon wrote: Soul Jar Diadem
As a ghost, you may continue to interact with other players and puzzles and do 1 pt of either Darkrift or Sacred damage to one monster each round of combat.
Usable by: All

Soul Jar minimus As a ghost, you may continue to interact with other players and puzzles without speech.

Which slot?

Slotless, like other Soul Jars.

Jar slot of course

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Xavon wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

Xavon wrote: Soul Jar Diadem
As a ghost, you may continue to interact with other players and puzzles and do 1 pt of either Darkrift or Sacred damage to one monster each round of combat.
Usable by: All

Soul Jar minimus As a ghost, you may continue to interact with other players and puzzles without speech.

Which slot?

Slotless, like other Soul Jars.

I guess charm slot if we aren’t going to make it slotless. I would also suggest a “gear” slot for traditional True Dungeon, I suspect a single gear would be monstrous in grind. I also suspect a ‘gear’ slot might be awkward to implement, it might also not be super limiting like 5 and then what’s the difference from slotless.

I was thinking on the power of the suggested Ultra Rare, and the spirit of an adventure, and figured the non speaking and damaging aspect of the UR token was probably best at uncommon. I just thought I’d propose a level for these bonuses that added a charades like element to the puzzle aspect of the game.

macXdmg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Xavon wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

Xavon wrote: Soul Jar Diadem
As a ghost, you may continue to interact with other players and puzzles and do 1 pt of either Darkrift or Sacred damage to one monster each round of combat.
Usable by: All

Soul Jar minimus As a ghost, you may continue to interact with other players and puzzles without speech.

Which slot?

Slotless, like other Soul Jars.

I guess charm slot if we aren’t going to make it slotless. I would also suggest a “gear” slot for traditional True Dungeon, I suspect a single gear would be monstrous in grind. I also suspect a ‘gear’ slot might be awkward to implement, it might also not be super limiting like 5 and then what’s the difference from slotless.

I was thinking on the power of the suggested Ultra Rare, and the spirit of an adventure, and figured the non speaking and damaging aspect of the UR token was probably best at uncommon. I just thought I’d propose a level for these bonuses that added a charades like element to the puzzle aspect of the game.

The UR suggested is a head slot item (Diadem being a simpler headband type crown), which is why I asked.