jedibcg wrote:
Matthew Hayward wrote: Stat granting tokens are generally more desirable than ability granting tokens.
But are they more powerful? Rarity level suggest power level as much as desirability. The two can be the same but don't have to be.
I think (broadly) stat based tokens are more desirable precisely because they are more powerful. This is a generality - of course there could be exceptions either in players (who don't care about power so much), or tokens - such as Widseth's Mystical Lute which is very powerful but doesn't directly affect stats.
I was in a bit of a rush earlier and couldn't do a more comprehensive look than I would have liked at token comparisons.
I take it that what we're discussing is "can we find justification for an uncommon potion having a similar effect to a UR."
I think the answer is clearly yes, based on potion Bull's Strength.
If I understand you correctly, you find that uncompelling, because you think the answer to the question may depend on whether the token in question is an ability granting token, or just a stat granting token.
For myself, I don't see the need to draw that distinction between "ability" granting tokens and "stat" granting tokens. Mithral Gauntlets, Girdle of Stone Giant Strength, Ioun Stone Onyx Cube - all these are very powerful URs. Potion Bull's strength is OK. For me that's the end of the argument about whether UC potions can grant equal or superior effects to URs.
But - let's see what happens when we compare "ability" granting tokens.
Potion: Leaping Attack
UR: Gnomish Fizzy Lifting Attack
Analysis: A rare potion has an effect that is strictly better than a UR (attack flying all room instead of attack flying for 1 round).
Consumable power level implication:
Rare consumables can grant strictly superior abilities to a similar UR
Potion: Potion Death's Door (and other identical effect potions)
UR: Druegar's Death Die
Analysis: For my money, PDD is considerably better than Druegar's Death Die. The only thing that keeps it from being strictly better is the 1/20 chance to come back with full HP. 1/2 the time DDD does nothing.
Consumable power level implication:
Rare consumables can grant usually superior abilities to a similar UR
Potion: Firey Ice Lager
UR: Ring of Fire Elemental Command, Ring of Water Elemental Command
Analysis: Grants the DR benefits of 2 URs, but not the retribution damage of either.
Consumable power level implications:
A single rare consumables can grant partial ability benefits of multiple URs
Side comment: For me, Firely Ice Lagger is 90% or more of the benefit of 2 URs - the RD damage is not significant in my opinion.
Potion: Any UC or Rare Polymorph Potion
UR: Coronet of the Arch-Druid
Analysis: Coronet's damage wheel has an average of 9.5, but costs 2 level 2 spells (ouch!). Polymorphing into a bear is not very interesting for RP purposes - potions provide much more interesting options (snake, shark, brownie, gremlin with potential auto-kill of construct). Best UC polymorph average damage is 5.75 and comes with -5 fire also. Best Rare polymorph average damage is 8.33. I'm going to say "8.33 damage and +2 level 2 spells" is better than 9.5 average damage.
Consumable power level implications:
Rare consumables can be grant better (a subjective assessment) abilities than than UR items.
I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions from all that.
As I've said above I conclude UC potions can clearly grant an ability similar to a UR token, because they are allowed to grant stats similar to powerful UR tokens, and I don't see why there should be a distinction between "stat potions" and "ability potions."
(I'd be open to a compelling argument for why UC potions should be considered different for these purposes. Merely historical facts here don't interest me - if we went with merely historical facts then we'd still have "of focus" items granting +1 at UR and nothing at lower rarities for spell boosting).
