TOPIC: Request for new difficulty level between Normal and Hardcore

I (6 years of running every path every year) kit my team of 6 for each run, usually: Druid, Cleric, Ranger, Rogue, D. Fighter, Barbarian. (if Rogue is taken, we usually grab Bard)

This year was the first year we tried Hardcore, and with Red+ sets on each of our team members with 3ish years of experience in TD, we didn't even clear half the HP of the final boss on our final run. We also couldn't kill a combat room halfway through, so something's not working for us. This was with Rogue -> Bard, so we always had +2 to hit/dmg.

Druid, Rogue and Barbarian are by far the strongest of the builds. Barb is +10 hit/dmg, Rogue has a good complement of sneaking bonuses and anti-anti, with Libram, etc. Druid is swinging +2-4 on his damage and heals.

I know that our team was surprised at how far below the threshold we seemed to fall. So, I know I'm in the camp that some sort of recalibration needs to be made, whether that's an interim level or some other guidepost.

Marcques Domask wrote:

Blaine Miller wrote: Can always add something like Hellish later.

Torment?

*Pistol Fingers*

Tyler Jakes wrote: I (6 years of running every path every year) kit my team of 6 for each run, usually: Druid, Cleric, Ranger, Rogue, D. Fighter, Barbarian. (if Rogue is taken, we usually grab Bard)

This year was the first year we tried Hardcore, and with Red+ sets on each of our team members with 3ish years of experience in TD, we didn't even clear half the HP of the final boss on our final run. We also couldn't kill a combat room halfway through, so something's not working for us. This was with Rogue -> Bard, so we always had +2 to hit/dmg.

Druid, Rogue and Barbarian are by far the strongest of the builds. Barb is +10 hit/dmg, Rogue has a good complement of sneaking bonuses and anti-anti, with Libram, etc. Druid is swinging +2-4 on his damage and heals.

I know that our team was surprised at how far below the threshold we seemed to fall. So, I know I'm in the camp that some sort of recalibration needs to be made, whether that's an interim level or some other guidepost.

Out of curiosity how many rounds of combat were you typically getting in, were your casters doing skill tests or bypassing for time, did your casters do stuff like lightning storm, restore spell, lightning storm in the last room?

Just trying to get a gauge since you sound geared enough.

Tyler Jakes wrote: This year was the first year we tried Hardcore, and with Red+ sets on each of our team members with 3ish years of experience in TD, we didn't even clear half the HP of the final boss on our final run.

So, just to clarify: You did all make it to the final boss, right?

To the best of my knowledge, that's where the calibration point is set. You're supposed to be able to make it to the final room. There is no guarantee (and never has been) that you will defeat the final boss.... even on Normal with 10-packs, it's calibrated that way.

So, basically, you get Max XP, you get your completion token, and you get to see all the rooms of the dungeon. If you slay the big bad and get your Survivor pin, that's gravy.

That is what I had always understood was meant by "X mode should be playable with X tokens."

Playable; not guaranteed win.

Picc wrote: I'm going to sound a little old and crotchety here but back in my day we didnt even have hardcore. Your options were normal and nightmare and that was it. Now we have a system with 5 difficulty slices, maybe we need to adjust where they fall but I dont think we need more.

+1 to this. And in addition, I think TD should communicate recommended party card stats per difficulty level along with a list of recommended Tokens (that have in game effects) per difficulty level.

Rob F wrote:

Picc wrote: I'm going to sound a little old and crotchety here but back in my day we didnt even have hardcore. Your options were normal and nightmare and that was it. Now we have a system with 5 difficulty slices, maybe we need to adjust where they fall but I dont think we need more.

+1 to this. And in addition, I think TD should communicate recommended party card stats per difficulty level along with a list of recommended Tokens (that have in game effects) per difficulty level.

I think Guidelines for hit, damage, saves, and hp would be good.

I'm not a fan of them posting recommended builds.

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Picc wrote: I'm going to sound a little old and crotchety here but back in my day we didnt even have hardcore. Your options were normal and nightmare and that was it. Now we have a system with 5 difficulty slices, maybe we need to adjust where they fall but I dont think we need more.

+1 to this. And in addition, I think TD should communicate recommended party card stats per difficulty level along with a list of recommended Tokens (that have in game effects) per difficulty level.

I think Guidelines for hit, damage, saves, and hp would be good.

I'm not a fan of them posting recommended builds.

I wouldn't expect them to post recommended builds.

With purpose build classes at the rare level, stats around +10 to saves, 20+ ac and +8 to hit isn’t that hard. I did it with 4 classes this year to round out our 6 to 10 players. Granted the bardsong was given credit for a lot of them “lower” hits with +3/3 which put her at 5th level, it prioritizes support classes for groups over say a monk and DPR which might make some sad.

I should mention that the rogue was at 19 ac and we had an 8 save in will and several earcuff of retort in our party.

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Picc wrote: I'm going to sound a little old and crotchety here but back in my day we didnt even have hardcore. Your options were normal and nightmare and that was it. Now we have a system with 5 difficulty slices, maybe we need to adjust where they fall but I dont think we need more.

+1 to this. And in addition, I think TD should communicate recommended party card stats per difficulty level along with a list of recommended Tokens (that have in game effects) per difficulty level.

I think Guidelines for hit, damage, saves, and hp would be good.

I'm not a fan of them posting recommended builds.

I'm not even a fan of posting that much. If anything I would post something like normal AC ranges from 15-20 and 20-25 for bosses. Then just let people decide how much +hit they need.

Casters cast each round, including restore spell.

Lightning storm? I'm not a caster, so I'm not sure what this is.

Tyler Jakes wrote: Casters cast each round, including restore spell.

Lightning storm? I'm not a caster, so I'm not sure what this is.

Lightning Storm is a Wizard spell that deals 20 to all monsters. I believe its the best spell (or at least tied for best spell) for restore spell in the last room of e3. Restore power is pretty handy to use on Spell Surge for the Druid in the final room as well.

As a Cleric, I typically cast Prayer + Bless round 1 of the final room (using ring of Spell Storing - in e3 this was done during the buff round). Round 2, I use restore power on spell surge, so the Druid can spell surge call lightning a second time. Round 3 I use restore spell on one of the wizard's spell (Lightning Storm or Fireball).

Since we got 4 rounds in the last room of e3 this year, I used searing light as well.

Tyler Jakes wrote: Casters cast each round, including restore spell.

Lightning storm? I'm not a caster, so I'm not sure what this is.

It's the level 5 wizard's big attack spell. 20 shock damage to all monsters.