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TOPIC: Don't understand how stats work apparently

Don't understand how stats work apparently 4 months 2 weeks ago #97

archmage78 wrote:

Ro-gan wrote: I'm going to go into Old Man mode here for this text...

I remember playing True Dungeon back in the day when a Party of 6-8 could go through on Normal mode with only a handful of non-UR Tokens and not get killed by any of the combats. Death was usually because of not being able to solve some of the puzzles or taking damage for messing with the props.

Power Creep is real and is hurting this game with the Newbies that won't come back because it's impossible to survive combats unless they are spending a significant amount of money on armor/weapons.

I know they could choose Non-Lethal... but, come on... no one really wants to choose that. That's like playing a sport where no score is kept and everyone gets a trophy at the end.

I think the solution is making Normal mode into Monster stats that can be overcome with C/UC/R weapons and armor. Let's be realistic... most of the TD Newbies that just want to try it are just going to be using the Tokens they get in the free bag. Getting them to come back is making sure they have a fun time... a fun time is not having half the Party die from Monster #1.

Keep Normal mode normal. Hardcore/Nightmare/Epic modes were created for Power Creep and those of us that have been playing for 10 years and invest in Tokens and transmute Tokens.

One solution and the most positive and fun? Something I have missed since the Sheraton days. Have NPCs walking around outside the Dungeons and able to be bribed for information and Tokens that will be useful to the Parties going on their adventures. Gawds!! I miss those days.


Apparently old man mode means forgetting or reimagining the olden days. God the dungeons were lethal back in the day. Almost everyone I have ever met has died at some point from the combats. They have gotten so easy in modern days. I went through Nightmare for 7 years without taking a single point of damage until this year. Many years we killed the entire dungeon of monsters without even giving them an attack.


My group had lots of casualties in the early Dungeons. Only two of us (me and Jolly Blackburn) even made it to the final room in 2003, our Wizard died in Room 2. None of us made it to the final room in 2005.

One of my favorite TD memories is the Blacksmith and Magic shops in 2005. I spent a lot of time there trading tokens, that's what really got me into major token buying. That and realizing the group needed to be better outfitted to survive Hardcore

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Last edit: by Mike Steele.

Don't understand how stats work apparently 4 months 2 weeks ago #98

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Harlax wrote: “These tokens are conditional and may or may not come into play in the dungeon. You will need to remember their effects and may need to show them to the DM.”

I swear I should record that so I can play it back repeatedly to save wear and tear on my voice.


If only a posted sign would work.....

We all know it won't, but if only.


I understand the concern though. Even with that statement, players can get frustrated if they frequently outfit tokens from the current set, thinking they would be applicable to the current Dungeons, just to find repeatedly that they don't have an impact.

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Don't understand how stats work apparently 4 months 2 weeks ago #99

The issue is that tokens are designed long before the adventures are finalized.

I'm sure there was originally an idea about having a ship sailing through rain somewhere, so that the common bead would come into play. Then, for a reason, that effect was removed or modified.

It's a tough balance.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My fledgling token shop: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 

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Don't understand how stats work apparently 4 months 2 weeks ago #100

Mike Steele wrote:

archmage78 wrote:

Ro-gan wrote: I'm going to go into Old Man mode here for this text...

I remember playing True Dungeon back in the day when a Party of 6-8 could go through on Normal mode with only a handful of non-UR Tokens and not get killed by any of the combats. Death was usually because of not being able to solve some of the puzzles or taking damage for messing with the props.

Power Creep is real and is hurting this game with the Newbies that won't come back because it's impossible to survive combats unless they are spending a significant amount of money on armor/weapons.

I know they could choose Non-Lethal... but, come on... no one really wants to choose that. That's like playing a sport where no score is kept and everyone gets a trophy at the end.

I think the solution is making Normal mode into Monster stats that can be overcome with C/UC/R weapons and armor. Let's be realistic... most of the TD Newbies that just want to try it are just going to be using the Tokens they get in the free bag. Getting them to come back is making sure they have a fun time... a fun time is not having half the Party die from Monster #1.

Keep Normal mode normal. Hardcore/Nightmare/Epic modes were created for Power Creep and those of us that have been playing for 10 years and invest in Tokens and transmute Tokens.

One solution and the most positive and fun? Something I have missed since the Sheraton days. Have NPCs walking around outside the Dungeons and able to be bribed for information and Tokens that will be useful to the Parties going on their adventures. Gawds!! I miss those days.


Apparently old man mode means forgetting or reimagining the olden days. God the dungeons were lethal back in the day. Almost everyone I have ever met has died at some point from the combats. They have gotten so easy in modern days. I went through Nightmare for 7 years without taking a single point of damage until this year. Many years we killed the entire dungeon of monsters without even giving them an attack.


My group had lots of casualties in the early Dungeons. Only two of us (me and Jolly Blackburn) even made it to the final room in 2003, our Wizard died in Room 2. None of us made it to the final room in 2005.

One of my favorite TD memories is the Blacksmith and Magic shops in 2005. I spent a lot of time there trading tokens, that's what really got me into major token buying. That and realizing the group needed to be better outfitted to survive Hardcore


I also remember the olden golden days as Very deadly. I remember repeating the dungeon because we all died before getting through the entire dungeon.
Please visit my fledgling token store.
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247486

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Don't understand how stats work apparently 4 months 2 weeks ago #101

Wade Schwendemann wrote: The issue is that tokens are designed long before the adventures are finalized.

I'm sure there was originally an idea about having a ship sailing through rain somewhere, so that the common bead would come into play. Then, for a reason, that effect was removed or modified.

It's a tough balance.

This could be addressed by other tokens in the set.

For example,
Scroll of heavy rain
Common
For duration of room Everyone in room is at -1 to hit

Anyone wearing the common bead would be exempt

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Don't understand how stats work apparently 4 months 2 weeks ago #102

Wade Schwendemann wrote: The issue is that tokens are designed long before the adventures are finalized.

I'm sure there was originally an idea about having a ship sailing through rain somewhere, so that the common bead would come into play. Then, for a reason, that effect was removed or modified.

It's a tough balance.


Actually, the truly corner-case commons like that one often don't come into play.

Personally, I've always found it odd when such an extreme corner case token is Common, but no higher rarity duplicates the effect. Mentally, I always think things that handle extreme corner cases should be more rare, because it is an extreme corner case. I'd always rather see Common tokens be straight-up useful (or at least useful with minimal restrictions, like "only usable outdoors")

I like that the Soul Coffee / Soul Jar behave more rationally to me (this odd corner case is only handled by tokens that are very much not Common). Maybe it will come up, maybe it won't

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Don't understand how stats work apparently 4 months 2 weeks ago #103

Fiddy wrote: Actually, the truly corner-case commons like that one often don't come into play.

Personally, I've always found it odd when such an extreme corner case token is Common, but no higher rarity duplicates the effect. Mentally, I always think things that handle extreme corner cases should be more rare, because it is an extreme corner case. I'd always rather see Common tokens be straight-up useful (or at least useful with minimal restrictions, like "only usable outdoors")


I understand that as common the in-game effect should be limited, but it's disheartening for someone new to the game to hear a token doesn't work in a given situation such as with Cap of the North against magic cold.
It seems some commons are designed to go straight into the token mulcher.

Fiddy wrote: I like that the Soul Coffee / Soul Jar behave more rationally to me (this odd corner case is only handled by tokens that are very much not Common). Maybe it will come up, maybe it won't


I like my Soul Coffee as black as my onyx tokens.

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Don't understand how stats work apparently 4 months 2 weeks ago #104

Brokkr wrote: it's disheartening for someone new to the game to hear a token doesn't work in a given situation such as with Cap of the North against magic cold.

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Given the available space on a token (~50 characters), how would you rephrase that to make it unerringly clear to a newbie that it doesn't work against magical cold? No snark intended, I'd love to have that wording in my arsenal.

Please note, that question is not a reference to "a special kind of cold" which was allegedly said to a player. That phrasing should never happen.
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections/suggestions in this thread .
If I write something in teal, it should not be taken seriously.

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Don't understand how stats work apparently 4 months 2 weeks ago #105

Would this be even more confusing -

"Immune to non-magical cold"

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Don't understand how stats work apparently 4 months 2 weeks ago #106

46 characters. Note, this makes the Cap of the north more powerful, but it also is makes the distinction self evident.

Cap of the North:
No dmg from Natural cold
-1 dmg from magic cold

You can shorten it slightly more if you like:

Cap of the North:
0 dmg from Natural cold
-1 dmg from magic cold

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Don't understand how stats work apparently 4 months 2 weeks ago #107

Druegar wrote: Given the available space on a token (~50 characters), how would you rephrase that to make it unerringly clear to a newbie that it doesn't work against magical cold? No snark intended, I'd love to have that wording in my arsenal.

Please note, that question is not a reference to "a special kind of cold" which was allegedly said to a player. That phrasing should never happen.


Possibly "Immune to non-magical Cold damage" or "Immune to non-spell based Cold damage". I think my main problem is that the majority of the first time players won't understand the difference between magical and non-magical damage, especially if they don't have a background of fantasy role-playing.

If I didn't know better I'd say put a few player's handbooks in the training rooms.

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Don't understand how stats work apparently 4 months 2 weeks ago #108

Brokkr wrote:

Druegar wrote: Given the available space on a token (~50 characters), how would you rephrase that to make it unerringly clear to a newbie that it doesn't work against magical cold? No snark intended, I'd love to have that wording in my arsenal.
Please note, that question is not a reference to "a special kind of cold" which was allegedly said to a player. That phrasing should never happen.


If I didn't know better I'd say put a few player's handbooks in the training rooms.


I think part of the issue with the cap is that beginning players don't know what to expect, and there is a lot of new information to provide in a very limited time between the time they enter the coaching room and leave the training room.

For instance, new players have seen the 10 tokens in their pack (and maybe a few tokens from their neighbors in the coaching room). There is very limited time to read each token and understand a level of nuance like "natural" being a keyword--when they should be equipping themselves as best they can and listening to the coach that is going over the event rules.

I don't think this a an issue with the wording on the token. It is that experienced players understand a level of subtlety that new players would not.

Those of us who have been around for years know that "natural" means that other types of cold damage would still be an issue, but we have experience with such things.

There certainly isn't enough time for new players to read the PHB in the coaching room or training room.

There is only so much information that can be passed on in such a limited time.

A coach may be able to point out that the cap is only for natural cold, but there are many tokens like this that would been to be explained (you now have -4 to all your saves from your equipment... that wand is not a melee weapon you can poke a monster with... etc.).

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