TOPIC: Don't understand how stats work apparently

Picc wrote:

Justice wrote:

Ro-gan wrote:
One solution and the most positive and fun? Something I have missed since the Sheraton days. Have NPCs walking around outside the Dungeons and able to be bribed for information and Tokens that will be useful to the Parties going on their adventures. Gawds!! I miss those days.

That sounds like that would have been a blast. Would definitely raise the public profile of the game and extend the player engagement outside their run. I would totally volunteer for something like that!

I miss the roving npc's, everyone really seemed to like bribing them for clues. The dream of course though would be to have true craft back again but any npc's would be great.

And the Tavern.

Justice wrote:

Picc wrote:

Justice wrote:

Ro-gan wrote:
One solution and the most positive and fun? Something I have missed since the Sheraton days. Have NPCs walking around outside the Dungeons and able to be bribed for information and Tokens that will be useful to the Parties going on their adventures. Gawds!! I miss those days.

That sounds like that would have been a blast. Would definitely raise the public profile of the game and extend the player engagement outside their run. I would totally volunteer for something like that!

I miss the roving npc's, everyone really seemed to like bribing them for clues. The dream of course though would be to have true craft back again but any npc's would be great.

Any ideas on why TD stopped this? Was it taxing on Volunteers? Did others not like this?

I think it would be awesome having a roving trader/npc or better yet a adventuring tavern!

I dont have an official answer or anything but I think it had to do with the old consistancy of experience argument and a general lack of volunteers that could be better utilized in more critical roles. We also didnt used to have npc's accompanying us in the dungeon nearly as often in the old days.

Justice wrote:

Picc wrote:

Justice wrote:

Ro-gan wrote:
One solution and the most positive and fun? Something I have missed since the Sheraton days. Have NPCs walking around outside the Dungeons and able to be bribed for information and Tokens that will be useful to the Parties going on their adventures. Gawds!! I miss those days.

That sounds like that would have been a blast. Would definitely raise the public profile of the game and extend the player engagement outside their run. I would totally volunteer for something like that!

I miss the roving npc's, everyone really seemed to like bribing them for clues. The dream of course though would be to have true craft back again but any npc's would be great.

Any ideas on why TD stopped this? Was it taxing on Volunteers? Did others not like this?

I think it would be awesome having a roving trader/npc or better yet a adventuring tavern!

I would imagine an in costume NPC by the escalators (or wherever at other cons) looking for stalwart adventurers would be better for drumming up interest than the video of Jeff playing on a loop.

Justice wrote:

Picc wrote:

Justice wrote:

Ro-gan wrote:
One solution and the most positive and fun? Something I have missed since the Sheraton days. Have NPCs walking around outside the Dungeons and able to be bribed for information and Tokens that will be useful to the Parties going on their adventures. Gawds!! I miss those days.

That sounds like that would have been a blast. Would definitely raise the public profile of the game and extend the player engagement outside their run. I would totally volunteer for something like that!

I miss the roving npc's, everyone really seemed to like bribing them for clues. The dream of course though would be to have true craft back again but any npc's would be great.

Any ideas on why TD stopped this? Was it taxing on Volunteers? Did others not like this?

I think it would be awesome having a roving trader/npc or better yet a adventuring tavern!

The Tavern went away because the hotel and then later the ICC made it well known TD couldn't serve alcohol/drinks/food/snacks because the hotel/ICC had the rights to this. And, the hotel/ICC staff were never going to agree to be NPCs. LOL!!

I do remember some of the Marriott staff doing some costume play, particularly the bartenders. they were kind of limited by the hotel staff rules and dress code.

Picc wrote:

Justice wrote:

Picc wrote:

Justice wrote:

Ro-gan wrote:
One solution and the most positive and fun? Something I have missed since the Sheraton days. Have NPCs walking around outside the Dungeons and able to be bribed for information and Tokens that will be useful to the Parties going on their adventures. Gawds!! I miss those days.

That sounds like that would have been a blast. Would definitely raise the public profile of the game and extend the player engagement outside their run. I would totally volunteer for something like that!

I miss the roving npc's, everyone really seemed to like bribing them for clues. The dream of course though would be to have true craft back again but any npc's would be great.

Any ideas on why TD stopped this? Was it taxing on Volunteers? Did others not like this?

I think it would be awesome having a roving trader/npc or better yet a adventuring tavern!

I dont have an official answer or anything but I think it had to do with the old consistancy of experience argument and a general lack of volunteers that could be better utilized in more critical roles. We also didnt used to have npc's accompanying us in the dungeon nearly as often in the old days.

Well, they technically don’t need to use more volunteers for a random NPC if more help is an issue or creating special lore tokens is a big deterrent. There is the GM in the puzzle rooms who can act as an NPC as well. He has the Party Card. If he sees this Normal mode group is hurting bad on health he can suggest he knows a secret in the room which he may be able to divulge if compensated properly.
Normally someone in the group will have received GP tokens I think. It doesn’t have to occur with every group. This would allow the very casual/first timer to make use of this GP token they’ll probably never use otherwise.
The GM gets bribed and reveals a secret stash of HP potions or a Healing Spring or an item that weakens the next monster. Party gets healed for 5-10 HP.
This increases survival of the casual normal group with them feeling like they earned it somewhat with their cleverness.
This would be for casual normal groups and not the Hardcore/Nightmare though.
The GM could them even toss the Rare GP tokens he was bribed with into the lockbox for us Rogues in later parties. 😜

Krym wrote:
Well, they technically don’t need to use more volunteers for a random NPC if more help is an issue or creating special lore tokens is a big deterrent. There is the GM in the puzzle rooms who can act as an NPC as well. He has the Party Card. If he sees this Normal mode group is hurting bad on health he can suggest he knows a secret in the room which he may be able to divulge if compensated properly.
Normally someone in the group will have received GP tokens I think. It doesn’t have to occur with every group. This would allow the very casual/first timer to make use of this GP token they’ll probably never use otherwise.
The GM gets bribed and reveals a secret stash of HP potions or a Healing Spring or an item that weakens the next monster. Party gets healed for 5-10 HP.
This increases survival of the casual normal group with them feeling like they earned it somewhat with their cleverness.
This would be for casual normal groups and not the Hardcore/Nightmare though.
The GM could them even toss the Rare GP tokens he was bribed with into the lockbox for us Rogues in later parties. 😜

A great idea.

Also, just like a rogue to always look for more GP in the treasure boxes...

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Krym wrote:
Well, they technically don’t need to use more volunteers for a random NPC if more help is an issue or creating special lore tokens is a big deterrent. There is the GM in the puzzle rooms who can act as an NPC as well. He has the Party Card. If he sees this Normal mode group is hurting bad on health he can suggest he knows a secret in the room which he may be able to divulge if compensated properly.
Normally someone in the group will have received GP tokens I think. It doesn’t have to occur with every group. This would allow the very casual/first timer to make use of this GP token they’ll probably never use otherwise.
The GM gets bribed and reveals a secret stash of HP potions or a Healing Spring or an item that weakens the next monster. Party gets healed for 5-10 HP.
This increases survival of the casual normal group with them feeling like they earned it somewhat with their cleverness.
This would be for casual normal groups and not the Hardcore/Nightmare though.
The GM could them even toss the Rare GP tokens he was bribed with into the lockbox for us Rogues in later parties. 😜

A great idea.

Also, just like a rogue to always look for more GP in the treasure boxes...

Anything to keep them from looking for more GP in OUR pockets.

Harlax wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Krym wrote:
Well, they technically don’t need to use more volunteers for a random NPC if more help is an issue or creating special lore tokens is a big deterrent. There is the GM in the puzzle rooms who can act as an NPC as well. He has the Party Card. If he sees this Normal mode group is hurting bad on health he can suggest he knows a secret in the room which he may be able to divulge if compensated properly.
Normally someone in the group will have received GP tokens I think. It doesn’t have to occur with every group. This would allow the very casual/first timer to make use of this GP token they’ll probably never use otherwise.
The GM gets bribed and reveals a secret stash of HP potions or a Healing Spring or an item that weakens the next monster. Party gets healed for 5-10 HP.
This increases survival of the casual normal group with them feeling like they earned it somewhat with their cleverness.
This would be for casual normal groups and not the Hardcore/Nightmare though.
The GM could them even toss the Rare GP tokens he was bribed with into the lockbox for us Rogues in later parties. 😜

A great idea.

Also, just like a rogue to always look for more GP in the treasure boxes...

Anything to keep them from looking for more GP in OUR pockets.

If you want the clue you gotta pay the library fines on my libram of looting

Ken Milam wrote: Did Odin's Haven this year as my second full fledged dungeon. Our group was all RPG players although we were down to 7. I got some extra tokens to power my monk up, so much so the guy doing the character sheets said it was the most he'd seen. Basically I got my AC up +5, a necklace that damages things that hit me, and immunity to cold in addition to +3 dex, and some utility stuff.

I got hit every single time something tried to hit me. I don't understand what AC does... Also, why have immunity to cold if a 'different' kind of cold still does damage? I'm missing the rule book I need to build a useful character. I read the players handbook already too.

Also, the room with the Giants seemed to be just a if you have this high of a DPS you can pass or else its a party wipe kind of room. It would have been better for us to be really slow with our turns so we just failed and took the room damage as opposed to more than half the party dying.

I'm looking for help on what I did wrong so I can do better next time, sorry if it comes off as a little negative.

Hello Ken,

Welcome! I had a similar experience to you after playing for a few years and it caused me to really look into the rules and learn more about tokens. It's not necessary at all to do to that in order to play and have fun, but if you like trying to understand the rules here are some resources:

1. Use a community maintained character builder like this one:

tdcharactercreator.com/#/login/
or this spreadheet:
www.davidallenkrause.com/TrueDungeonCharacterGenerator.aspx/

To experiment with gear and see how it impacts your stat line on the "party card."

2. You can see descriptions of the tokens available here:

tokendb.com/

Which can be pretty overwhelming. Maybe start with the Rares and Uncommons of the current year that your class can equip - that should keep it to ~60 tokens to look at.

3. Probably the single most important rules nuance to know is this:

If a token boosts something on the party card, then the DM knows about it and has already taken it into account. These are usually unconditional boosts to STR, DEX, CON, WIS stats, melee or ranged hit or damage, AC, or RFLX, FORT, WILL saves.

If a token is conditional (e.g. "+6 to save vs. Gaze attacks"), +3 to damage while in The Bliss, -2 from Fire damage, then the DM does not know you have it and you need to proactively ask/notify them.

3. You can download the Players Handbook and DM guide from here:

truedungeon.com/resources

Specific answers to your questions:

* I don't believe you could have had straight immunity to cold - I don't think any token does that - although the 5th level Druid has a 3rd level spell that grants that. Did you maybe some kind of cold resistance (e.g. -2 from cold, or 1/2 damage from cold)? Or immunity to _natural_ cold?

For better or worse TD has some what ambiguous and graduated elemental damage types. In particular a distinction is made between "natural" heat and cold, and un-natural (magical, alchemical, ...) heat and cold.

Your DM wouldn't know about your cold resistance - for all conditional bonuses you just need to ask if you think it's relevant. E.g. the DM says "You've been hit with an ice blast for 8." You just need to ask "is that cold damage?" they say yes, you apply your cold resistance to the damage and record your HP accordingly.

* AC does what you'd expect, but monsters have many attack types. In particular the Giants may have had AOE attacks that were defended against with a save of some kind, not AC.

* +5 AC is pretty good for a monk, but that would leave you at an AC of 16 (base for Monk) +5 = 21. If your +3 DEX didn't already get counted you'd get an additional +2, for a total AC of either 21 or 23.

A human fighter with a single rare Torso slot armor token would have an AC of 19. My point is an AC of 21-23 isn't really high.

Monsters on Normal have a typical to-hit of around +8. The giants were end bosses, so maybe they had like +10-12.

That means they would hit an AC of 21 on a roll of something like 10-14 (assuming they were making an AC based attack, not a save based attack).


Here are some targets for Normal in terms of planning your build:

Get hit around 1/2 the time in combat: AC ~18
Rarely get hit in combat: AC ~28

Save around 1/2 the time: All saves 8 or better
Rarely fail a save: All saves 18 or better

Hit a monster on a 10+ slide: +12 to hit
(Remember, bards can add +1 to hit, or more with the right instrument, Priests can add +1/2 to hit with prayer/bless).



I appreciate it can be frustrating to get started with the rule system, but if you have questions people here will help. Once you get used to it it's not too hard.

Also - the Giants were really difficult (at Gen Con my group didn't beat them either).

Ro-gan wrote: I'm going to go into Old Man mode here for this text...

I remember playing True Dungeon back in the day when a Party of 6-8 could go through on Normal mode with only a handful of non-UR Tokens and not get killed by any of the combats. Death was usually because of not being able to solve some of the puzzles or taking damage for messing with the props.

Power Creep is real and is hurting this game with the Newbies that won't come back because it's impossible to survive combats unless they are spending a significant amount of money on armor/weapons.

I know they could choose Non-Lethal... but, come on... no one really wants to choose that. That's like playing a sport where no score is kept and everyone gets a trophy at the end.

I think the solution is making Normal mode into Monster stats that can be overcome with C/UC/R weapons and armor. Let's be realistic... most of the TD Newbies that just want to try it are just going to be using the Tokens they get in the free bag. Getting them to come back is making sure they have a fun time... a fun time is not having half the Party die from Monster #1.

Keep Normal mode normal. Hardcore/Nightmare/Epic modes were created for Power Creep and those of us that have been playing for 10 years and invest in Tokens and transmute Tokens.

One solution and the most positive and fun? Something I have missed since the Sheraton days. Have NPCs walking around outside the Dungeons and able to be bribed for information and Tokens that will be useful to the Parties going on their adventures. Gawds!! I miss those days.

Apparently old man mode means forgetting or reimagining the olden days. God the dungeons were lethal back in the day. Almost everyone I have ever met has died at some point from the combats. They have gotten so easy in modern days. I went through Nightmare for 7 years without taking a single point of damage until this year. Many years we killed the entire dungeon of monsters without even giving them an attack.

One of the problems with your idea and one that I think will actually make your experience much better. The DM's never know how many hitpoints that you have. I can't count the number of kills that I have done as a DM where I just deal a set of damage and had no idea that the player had no hitpoints left. Also, I have when I have run that I discovered was far too beaten up in my room done exactly what you described and I did indeed give players hit points or even lives back. Very few players got through my room dead. If you ignore cold damage, ignore cold damage. The DM's don't control your hit points. In my room, I announced that you take 4 points of cold damage, but the DM's don't check or even know what you have equipped.

That sounds like that would have been a blast. Would definitely raise the public profile of thI simply said you take cold damage.e game and extend the player engagement outside their run. I would totally volunteer for something like that![/quote] I miss the roving npc's, everyone really seemed to like bribing them for clues. The dream of course though would be to have true craft back again but any npc's would be great.[/quote]

Any ideas on why TD stopped this? Was it taxing on Volunteers? Did others not like this?

I think it would be awesome having a roving trader/npc or better yet a adventuring tavern![/quote]

I dont have an official answer or anything but I think it had to do with the old consistancy of experience argument and a general lack of volunteers that could be better utilized in more critical roles. We also didnt used to have npc's accompanying us in the dungeon nearly as often in the old days.[/quote]

Well, they technically don’t need to use more volunteers for a random NPC if more help is an issue or creating special lore tokens is a big deterrent. There is the GM in the puzzle rooms who can act as an NPC as well. He has the Party Card. If he sees this Normal mode group is hurting bad on health he can suggest he knows a secret in the room which he may be able to divulge if compensated properly.
Normally someone in the group will have received GP tokens I think. It doesn’t have to occur with every group. This would allow the very casual/first timer to make use of this GP token they’ll probably never use otherwise.
The GM gets bribed and reveals a secret stash of HP potions or a Healing Spring or an item that weakens the next monster. Party gets healed for 5-10 HP.
This increases survival of the casual normal group with them feeling like they earned it somewhat with their cleverness.
This would be for casual normal groups and not the Hardcore/Nightmare though.
The GM could them even toss the Rare GP tokens he was bribed with into the lockbox for us Rogues in later parties. 😜[/quote]