TOPIC: Important Update! The Astral Adventure is now NEW

Jeff Martin wrote: It's been a very long day. Thanks for your feedback on this. I'll talk to the team via phone on Saturday and get their input on different ideas. We should have a final decision by Monday morning.

Thanks again.

Thanks, Jeff! One thing to consider is that far more people play True Dungeon at GENCON than at other conventions. For those that do GENCON but not other conventions and who care about XP (I'm guessing it is a significant number of people), it would be a real negative for other conventions to offer more XP than does GENCON.

Mike Steele wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: It's been a very long day. Thanks for your feedback on this. I'll talk to the team via phone on Saturday and get their input on different ideas. We should have a final decision by Monday morning.

Thanks again.

Thanks, Jeff! One thing to consider is that far more people play True Dungeon at GENCON than at other conventions. For those that do GENCON but not other conventions and who care about XP (I'm guessing it is a significant number of people), it would be a real negative for other conventions to offer more XP than does GENCON.

Why would it be a real negative? If you want to play TD aren't you going to play were and when you can? I also wonder what you think a significant number is. This are real questions I am attempting to understand.

I personally hope they stick to the plan of having the new, original dungeon, with its own XP. It give me more interesting things to play. And I think if it’s not a “best of” or a “demo dungeon” then it should have XP.

I will always be in favor of more interesting content.

Jeff Martin wrote: It's been a very long day. Thanks for your feedback on this. I'll talk to the team via phone on Saturday and get their input on different ideas. We should have a final decision by Monday morning.

Thanks again.

Please dont feel pressured into changing your decision. It sounded like you had already deliberated on this and decided it was best for TD...which i agree with. XP at non-gencon events is a clear signal that TD is expanding. If you keep XP connected to gencon (and at this point signal that to be the intention going forward), i fear that TD will be limited in options to expand. Or perhaps it will be clear that XP is a gencon thing, and there should be something else for each other event...track XP for each event separately? That sounds exhausting.

If you are looking for a middle option, maybe have the non-gencon events start with lower base XP...but im not sure that is good for either side. Though, i hear that is a mark of a good compromise: nobody is happy.

jedibcg wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: It's been a very long day. Thanks for your feedback on this. I'll talk to the team via phone on Saturday and get their input on different ideas. We should have a final decision by Monday morning.

Thanks again.

Thanks, Jeff! One thing to consider is that far more people play True Dungeon at GENCON than at other conventions. For those that do GENCON but not other conventions and who care about XP (I'm guessing it is a significant number of people), it would be a real negative for other conventions to offer more XP than does GENCON.

Why would it be a real negative? If you want to play TD aren't you going to play were and when you can? I also wonder what you think a significant number is. This are real questions I am attempting to understand.

I think this. A player should be able to earn TD XP for every room they see, regardless of where they see it. It would be great if the new rooms at GHC and Origins gave XP to players.

Either XP is an incentive to go to other cons to play more TD, or it isn't. If it is, then it should be awarded at those cons, to further encourage players to attend and play more TD. If it isn't, then why would it matter if we give XP at the other cons?

TD as a game has, and hopefully will, continue to grow for a long, long time. This is a great game with a great community of people, and it should be shared with everyone who is interested.

I have a hard time understanding the argument that the maximum amount of XP per year should be that amount that can be earned at GC. How does such a rule help TD grow and expand its player base? If anything, that might encourage people not to go to other conventions. GC is already overcrowded and full with players. Growing other cons is a goal that will help the long term health of TD.

I realize that many do not have the means to attend and play at every convention. To me, this argument is the strongest one against change. I do believe that everyone makes choices in their priorities, and those choices come with consequences. If you want to attend but it is cost prohibitive, maybe volunteering is the way to go. If travel is still too much, perhaps buying fewer tokens (gasp) or selling some of your excess will get the job done? Or perhaps doing so with a different hobby or activity will make the difference? Choices have to be made, and one has to decide their own priorities.

I believe that we should all act in a way that we feel is best for the game for the next 15, 25, 50 years.

TL;DR Yes! Give as much XP at as many locations as possible, grow the game as much as you can, so it continues to bring joy to as many people as possible.

As a newer player, I really appreciate the added content of a new dungeon. Thank you for creating a new dungeon that we can all enjoy. Growing True Dungeon to include new cons in different parts of the country and new players of all types is going to be great for the community. Any expansion of True Dungeon while maintaining or improving the high quality we are accustomed to is very welcome

I personally believe that there should always be XP awarded for content new to the player.

I do understand the concerns that other players have posted here in the thread and I am hopeful that we can come up with a solution for the future that addresses the concerns of the highest level players while still allowing this.

As I understand it, the biggest concern is that players near the top of the "ranking" of players that earn max XP at Gencon every year would be passed by other top players that would earn XP at Gencon and would travel to another con and earn XP at an adventure that is not offered at Gencon. While we do enjoy debating things on these boards, there must ba a solution that addresses this concern without affecting the majority of players that are very new or just trying to hit levels 3-6.

jedibcg wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: It's been a very long day. Thanks for your feedback on this. I'll talk to the team via phone on Saturday and get their input on different ideas. We should have a final decision by Monday morning.

Thanks again.

Thanks, Jeff! One thing to consider is that far more people play True Dungeon at GENCON than at other conventions. For those that do GENCON but not other conventions and who care about XP (I'm guessing it is a significant number of people), it would be a real negative for other conventions to offer more XP than does GENCON.

Why would it be a real negative? If you want to play TD aren't you going to play were and when you can? I also wonder what you think a significant number is. This are real questions I am attempting to understand.

I think the simple fact that there are far more people that play True Dungeon at GENCON than at the other conventions shows that there are a lot of people, for whatever reason (time, money, etc.), only attend GENCON and no other conventions. So there are clearly a lot of people that enjoy True Dungeon that don't play it at every single convention it's at. Especially since Origins and GENCON are less than two months apart.

I obviously don't know an exact number of players that only play TD at GENCON and to whom XP is important. There seem to be thousands of people that only play it at GENCON, and since XP is important to a lot of people (even the more casual players that I play with), I think it's a lot of people. The counterpoint obviously to someone asserting that XP isn't important to very many people would be that, in that case, why offer exclusive XP outside of GENCON?

I do understand that if True Dungeon has exclusive XP at non-GENCON conventions that it might drive additional attendance there. That is counterbalanced by the GENCON players that won't attend those conventions and might be unhappy and disincentivized by getting less XP than those going to other conventions. I'd imagine those and other factors we haven't even considered are what Jeff and the team are discussing this weekend.

I wouldn't consider it to be Jeff being pressured to change his decision, but rather him considering some points / options that perhaps they hadn't considered before.

Mike Steele wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: It's been a very long day. Thanks for your feedback on this. I'll talk to the team via phone on Saturday and get their input on different ideas. We should have a final decision by Monday morning.

Thanks again.

Thanks, Jeff! One thing to consider is that far more people play True Dungeon at GENCON than at other conventions. For those that do GENCON but not other conventions and who care about XP (I'm guessing it is a significant number of people), it would be a real negative for other conventions to offer more XP than does GENCON.

Why would it be a real negative? If you want to play TD aren't you going to play were and when you can? I also wonder what you think a significant number is. This are real questions I am attempting to understand.

I think the simple fact that there are far more people that play True Dungeon at GENCON than at the other conventions shows that there are a lot of people, for whatever reason (time, money, etc.), only attend GENCON and no other conventions. So there are clearly a lot of people that enjoy True Dungeon that don't play it at every single convention it's at. Especially since Origins and GENCON are less than two months apart.

I obviously don't know an exact number of players that only play TD at GENCON and to whom XP is important. There seem to be thousands of people that only play it at GENCON, and since XP is important to a lot of people (even the more casual players that I play with), I think it's a lot of people. The counterpoint obviously to someone asserting that XP isn't important to very many people would be that, in that case, why offer exclusive XP outside of GENCON?

I do understand that if True Dungeon has exclusive XP at non-GENCON conventions that it might drive additional attendance there. That is counterbalanced by the GENCON players that won't attend those conventions and might be unhappy and disincentivized by getting less XP than those going to other conventions. I'd imagine those and other factors we haven't even considered are what Jeff and the team are discussing this weekend.

I wouldn't consider it to be Jeff being pressured to change his decision, but rather him considering some points / options that perhaps they hadn't considered before.

i have to disagree, I was not there...but Pax south sold out too. There were a lot of new people. I mean a lot. you combine that with the other cons. I bet it is more people than Gen Con. At gen con people run multiple times. So I would bet more people play at the other cons combined , than at gen con

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: It's been a very long day. Thanks for your feedback on this. I'll talk to the team via phone on Saturday and get their input on different ideas. We should have a final decision by Monday morning.

Thanks again.

Thanks, Jeff! One thing to consider is that far more people play True Dungeon at GENCON than at other conventions. For those that do GENCON but not other conventions and who care about XP (I'm guessing it is a significant number of people), it would be a real negative for other conventions to offer more XP than does GENCON.

Why would it be a real negative? If you want to play TD aren't you going to play were and when you can? I also wonder what you think a significant number is. This are real questions I am attempting to understand.

I think the simple fact that there are far more people that play True Dungeon at GENCON than at the other conventions shows that there are a lot of people, for whatever reason (time, money, etc.), only attend GENCON and no other conventions. So there are clearly a lot of people that enjoy True Dungeon that don't play it at every single convention it's at. Especially since Origins and GENCON are less than two months apart.

I obviously don't know an exact number of players that only play TD at GENCON and to whom XP is important. There seem to be thousands of people that only play it at GENCON, and since XP is important to a lot of people (even the more casual players that I play with), I think it's a lot of people. The counterpoint obviously to someone asserting that XP isn't important to very many people would be that, in that case, why offer exclusive XP outside of GENCON?

I do understand that if True Dungeon has exclusive XP at non-GENCON conventions that it might drive additional attendance there. That is counterbalanced by the GENCON players that won't attend those conventions and might be unhappy and disincentivized by getting less XP than those going to other conventions. I'd imagine those and other factors we haven't even considered are what Jeff and the team are discussing this weekend.

I wouldn't consider it to be Jeff being pressured to change his decision, but rather him considering some points / options that perhaps they hadn't considered before.

i have to disagree, I was not there...but Pax south sold out too. There were a lot of new people. I mean a lot. you combine that with the other cons. I bet it is more people than Gen Con. At gen con people run multiple times. So I would bet more people play at the other cons combined , than at gen con

I wasn't talking about the other conventions combined - I'm really not sure how all of those numbers add up. And I'd love it if the other conventions each eventually built up to GENCON level of players. The more people playing True Dungeon, the better.

One possible compromise would be to allow XP in excess of 4K per year at various conventions, as long as you were two levels of XP or more below the top tier of players. If you're in the top two tiers of players in XP, you have a hard cap of 4K per year. That would certainly boost players much more quickly into the top couple of tiers, but keep it more controlled after that.

Mike Steele wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: It's been a very long day. Thanks for your feedback on this. I'll talk to the team via phone on Saturday and get their input on different ideas. We should have a final decision by Monday morning.

Thanks again.

Thanks, Jeff! One thing to consider is that far more people play True Dungeon at GENCON than at other conventions. For those that do GENCON but not other conventions and who care about XP (I'm guessing it is a significant number of people), it would be a real negative for other conventions to offer more XP than does GENCON.

Why would it be a real negative? If you want to play TD aren't you going to play were and when you can? I also wonder what you think a significant number is. This are real questions I am attempting to understand.

I think the simple fact that there are far more people that play True Dungeon at GENCON than at the other conventions shows that there are a lot of people, for whatever reason (time, money, etc.), only attend GENCON and no other conventions. So there are clearly a lot of people that enjoy True Dungeon that don't play it at every single convention it's at. Especially since Origins and GENCON are less than two months apart.

I obviously don't know an exact number of players that only play TD at GENCON and to whom XP is important. There seem to be thousands of people that only play it at GENCON, and since XP is important to a lot of people (even the more casual players that I play with), I think it's a lot of people. The counterpoint obviously to someone asserting that XP isn't important to very many people would be that, in that case, why offer exclusive XP outside of GENCON?

I do understand that if True Dungeon has exclusive XP at non-GENCON conventions that it might drive additional attendance there. That is counterbalanced by the GENCON players that won't attend those conventions and might be unhappy and disincentivized by getting less XP than those going to other conventions. I'd imagine those and other factors we haven't even considered are what Jeff and the team are discussing this weekend.

I wouldn't consider it to be Jeff being pressured to change his decision, but rather him considering some points / options that perhaps they hadn't considered before.

i have to disagree, I was not there...but Pax south sold out too. There were a lot of new people. I mean a lot. you combine that with the other cons. I bet it is more people than Gen Con. At gen con people run multiple times. So I would bet more people play at the other cons combined , than at gen con

I wasn't talking about the other conventions combined - I'm really not sure how all of those numbers add up. And I'd love it if the other conventions each eventually built up to GENCON level of players. The more people playing True Dungeon, the better.

One possible compromise would be to allow XP in excess of 4K per year at various conventions, as long as you were two levels of XP or more below the top tier of players. If you're in the top two tiers of players in XP, you have a hard cap of 4K per year. That would certainly boost players much more quickly into the top couple of tiers, but keep it more controlled after that.

i think the extra XP at these other conventions would build up the player base

Extra XP at other cons is a good thing. How much? I have no idea, but I do think it outweighs any negative consequences. I have one real-life example. The first year TD was offered at GHC, some players who ran at GC in our group were initially not aware they couldn't get extra XP, even a minimum amount. They referred to it as "lame" (their word, not mine). They had already bought tickets, so did the runs, but last year decided their was no benefit doing TD again and skipped it. So this is a real life example of 5 people who skipped TD at a con because of the XP cap.

If Jeff can figure out how to squeeze Astral into GC, I think that's great, but I do question whether the current XP cap does more harm then good. I think it's a good compromise to raise it, but only by a limited amount. In all honesty, it would probably still take a newbie over a decade to catch up to the top players. And if they stick to doing multiple cons for that long, I think they deserve it.

Look, I get. The players at the top worked very hard to get where they are. They stuck with the game from the beginning and TD does owe them a lot of gratitude. They are legends. They are part of why the game is still popular and expanding. And it sucks to think they could lose that position due to things outside their control. But there are other ways to recognize and reward their contributions. I just don't feel that maintaining the current XP cap is in the best long term interest of the game. Again, I know others will disagree and that's fine. I'm sure Jeff will do what he feels is best for TD and I plan to support whatever that is.

I think Wade hit it on the head and it's about priorities. We all have different priorities, i pay attention to the XP as i want my tchotchke's. If it's new content then yes XP should be given vs Re-dux.

I rather like that i can get full TD experience/dungeons at other cons now. Takes a lot of stress off of pushing to make Gencon with all the headaches that entails now.

If people on the top of the ladder want to stay there, then they need to commit like everyone else or else it's not 'their priority' much as they squawk about it.

I play other games/hobbies so i'm not as invested in TD as others. See differing priorities.