TOPIC: Melee Damage in 2020

I get +44 when making some more realistic decisions like using treasure enhancers. A real BiS build probably drops a few more + damage for things like higher AC too

tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/60e08d6c-687d-44a6-be62-79c863b0f4f6

Google doc in first post has Barbarian is lowest bonus damage at 17. 51 is triple this. Dropping this lower and adding in triple crit damage for +2 death flail still far exceeds the google doc. It is easy to see which class dominates melee combat.

edwin wrote: Google doc in first post has Barbarian is lowest bonus damage at 17. 51 is triple this. Add in triple crit damage and it is easy to see which class dominates melee combat.

That spreadsheet neglects all of the bonus 2H damage. the damage bonus is just the straight amount. It probably needs revision.

edwin wrote: Google doc in first post has Barbarian is lowest bonus damage at 17. 51 is triple this. Add in triple crit damage and it is easy to see which class dominates melee combat.

You're not reading that correctly.

Damage bonus (all weapons): +17
Damage bonus (2H weapons): +27
Total Strenth Bonus: +16

Final damage modifier: +60

It's all there, you just need to scroll down

cut n paste:
Total Strength 43
Strength Mod 16
Total To-Hit Bonus 23
Total Damage Bonus 60

Endgame wrote:

edwin wrote: Google doc in first post has Barbarian is lowest bonus damage at 17. 51 is triple this. Add in triple crit damage and it is easy to see which class dominates melee combat.

You're not reading that correctly.

Damage bonus (all weapons): +17
Damage bonus (2H weapons): +27
Total Strenth Bonus: +16

Final damage modifier: +60

It's all there, you just need to scroll down

cut n paste:
Total Strength 43
Strength Mod 16
Total To-Hit Bonus 23
Total Damage Bonus 60

Stand corrected.

Kakitahan wrote:

Fred K wrote: Rogue with assassin’s crossbow does more damage.

Fred

Do you know, if you equip nightshade's but don't use it for sneak attack (rather a ranged weapon), is the sneak attack damage still doubled if crit is confirmed?

I'm not sure I understand the question. If you are asking if the sneak damage is doubled for weapons other than nightshade's (like the crossbow) while nightshades is equipped, the answer is no. With that said, the x3 element of the crossbow is more significant than doubling the sneak damage. With the crossbow, it is possible to get a +26 base damage before potions and oils or bardsong. With range on the crossbow (using lenses of vital insight, etc), you are doing 78+20 (sneak) + 3 times weapon damage (average of 7 for 21 average). That means a sneak going this route will average 119.

The best combination I found using nightshades' (it out-damages viper by 1.5 points) worked out to approximately +32 base damage. That means you get 64+40 (sneak times 2)+double weapon (average of 6 for 12) = 116.

I found it very strange how close every combination I looked at was in total damage comparing melee to range on the rogue.

The crossbow is superior because the multiplier for criticals doesn't just apply to sneak damage - you get the x3 damage all the time on any crit (17+ with the Legendary necklace). Even when you aren't sneak attacking, your crits are doing 99 damage on average.

Separately, I'd recommend re-evaluating the percent of time a crit happens. The model assumes it is parallel to dice rolling and it isn't. A 20 is substantially harder to hit than a 17 or 18. It isn't an even distribution of probability. With an average experienced slider, I'd wager most of us could hit a 17 at least 35% of the time. I tracked it this year in my rogue runs and was just a hair under 45% crits (meaning 17 or better) when I played rogue in around 20 combats (I didn't track grind as well as I should have so I'd say +/- 1 or 2 creatures).

My guess is crit percentages are 5% on 20's, 10% on 19's, 25% on 18's, and 35% on 17's. All I have is my own small data set to work off of though.

Fred

Endgame wrote: I get +44 when making some more realistic decisions like using treasure enhancers. A real BiS build probably drops a few more + damage for things like higher AC too

tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/60e08d6c-687d-44a6-be62-79c863b0f4f6

And there it is. All we need is more treasure enhancers in more slots - you know we’ll fall for that. Nerf accomplished.

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote: I get +44 when making some more realistic decisions like using treasure enhancers. A real BiS build probably drops a few more + damage for things like higher AC too

tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/60e08d6c-687d-44a6-be62-79c863b0f4f6

And there it is. All we need is more treasure enhancers in more slots - you know we’ll fall for that. Nerf accomplished.

Genius!!

Endgame wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote: I get +44 when making some more realistic decisions like using treasure enhancers. A real BiS build probably drops a few more + damage for things like higher AC too

tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/60e08d6c-687d-44a6-be62-79c863b0f4f6

And there it is. All we need is more treasure enhancers in more slots - you know we’ll fall for that. Nerf accomplished.

Genius!!

I have a idea. How about Neck slot treasure enhancer that gives you treasure draws for each successful room... Then we could track with Stamps on the party card.

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote: I get +44 when making some more realistic decisions like using treasure enhancers. A real BiS build probably drops a few more + damage for things like higher AC too

tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/60e08d6c-687d-44a6-be62-79c863b0f4f6

And there it is. All we need is more treasure enhancers in more slots - you know we’ll fall for that. Nerf accomplished.

Genius!!

I have a idea. How about Neck slot treasure enhancer that gives you treasure draws for each successful room... Then we could track with Stamps on the party card.

Could we call it Hanging of Prosperity;)

Picc wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote: I get +44 when making some more realistic decisions like using treasure enhancers. A real BiS build probably drops a few more + damage for things like higher AC too

tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/60e08d6c-687d-44a6-be62-79c863b0f4f6

And there it is. All we need is more treasure enhancers in more slots - you know we’ll fall for that. Nerf accomplished.

Genius!!

I have a idea. How about Neck slot treasure enhancer that gives you treasure draws for each successful room... Then we could track with Stamps on the party card.

Could we call it Hanging of Prosperity;)

Nah. that sounds like a dick joke, maybe something similar

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Picc wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote: I get +44 when making some more realistic decisions like using treasure enhancers. A real BiS build probably drops a few more + damage for things like higher AC too

tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/60e08d6c-687d-44a6-be62-79c863b0f4f6

And there it is. All we need is more treasure enhancers in more slots - you know we’ll fall for that. Nerf accomplished.

Genius!!

I have a idea. How about Neck slot treasure enhancer that gives you treasure draws for each successful room... Then we could track with Stamps on the party card.

Could we call it Hanging of Prosperity;)

Nah. that sounds like a dick joke, maybe something similar

Horde Owners Pendant

Ankh of tremendous fortune

Choker of acqusition, na that one doesnt sound like a neck.