TOPIC: Discussion of Class Selection Process

It does appear one area of ambiguity is in when one can select classes.

It might benefit to clarify this some, such as:

==

Players may begin to plan classes up to 30 minutes before their start time. Only players who are present and remain in the coaching room my hold onto one of the class cards to indicate their interest in the class (this does not guarantee them that class).

At or around the ticket start time, the coach will arrive. All players present at this time will finalize their character selections. In the event that players can not agree among themselves on class assignments, the following tie breaking procedure will be used:

1. Any number of Player Level 3 or higher players may choose to roll a die. Among those who so chose, they select classes one at a time in descending order of die roll. The player must play the class selected.
2. All remaining players must then roll a die. The remaining players then one at a time select classes in descending order of die roll. The player must play the class selected.

Players who are not present when the coach arrives and initial class assignment begins may only select from the remaining classes not selected.

Once the coach begins recording a player's class on the party card, that player must play that class.

==

This answers all corner case timing questions with: Be present when the coach arrives, otherwise get stuck with the leftovers. It also prevents confusing signaling that certain classes are "off limits" by having them pulled by anyone other than someone sitting in the room holding a card.

It also clarifies the roll off procedure. The clarified procedure prevents coordination by sub-groups to get a highly desired class. It could be softened to still allow any and all voluntary trades after selection.

Matthew Hayward wrote: It does appear one area of ambiguity is in when one can select classes.

It might benefit to clarify this some, such as:

==

Players may begin to plan classes up to 30 minutes before their start time. Only players who are present and remain in the coaching room my hold onto one of the class cards to indicate their interest in the class (this does not guarantee them that class).

At or around the ticket start time, the coach will arrive. All players present at this time will finalize their character selections. In the event that players can not agree among themselves on class assignments, the following tie breaking procedure will be used:

1. Any number of Player Level 3 or higher players may choose to roll a die. Among those who so chose, they select classes one at a time in descending order of die roll. The player must play the class selected.
2. All remaining players must then roll a die. The remaining players then one at a time select classes in descending order of die roll. The player must play the class selected.

Players who are not present when the coach arrives and initial class assignment begins may only select from the remaining classes not selected.

Once the coach begins recording a player's class on the party card, that player must play that class.

==

This answers all corner case timing questions with: Be present when the coach arrives, otherwise get stuck with the leftovers. It also prevents confusing signaling that certain classes are "off limits" by having them pulled by anyone other than someone sitting in the room holding a card.

It also clarifies the roll off procedure. The clarified procedure prevents coordination by sub-groups to get a highly desired class. It could be softened to still allow any and all voluntary trades after selection.

Matthew Hayward wrote: It does appear one area of ambiguity is in when one can select classes.

It might benefit to clarify this some, such as:

==

Players may begin to plan classes up to 30 minutes before their start time. Only players who are present and remain in the coaching room my hold onto one of the class cards to indicate their interest in the class (this does not guarantee them that class).

At or around the ticket start time, the coach will arrive. All players present at this time will finalize their character selections. In the event that players can not agree among themselves on class assignments, the following tie breaking procedure will be used:

1. Any number of Player Level 3 or higher players may choose to roll a die. Among those who so chose, they select classes one at a time in descending order of die roll. The player must play the class selected.
2. All remaining players must then roll a die. The remaining players then one at a time select classes in descending order of die roll. The player must play the class selected.

Players who are not present when the coach arrives and initial class assignment begins may only select from the remaining classes not selected.

Once the coach begins recording a player's class on the party card, that player must play that class.

==

This answers all corner case timing questions with: Be present when the coach arrives, otherwise get stuck with the leftovers. It also prevents confusing signaling that certain classes are "off limits" by having them pulled by anyone other than someone sitting in the room holding a card.

It also clarifies the roll off procedure. The clarified procedure prevents coordination by sub-groups to get a highly desired class. It could be softened to still allow any and all voluntary trades after selection.

I'm not sure it's necessary to make everyone roll dies. It might be that all the classes are set except for two people wanting a single class - perhaps just a die roll between those two would settle things.

Mike Steele wrote: I'm not sure it's necessary to make everyone roll dies. It might be that all the classes are set except for two people wanting a single class - perhaps just a die roll between those two would settle things.

No that's the point that Kurt Reznor / Kent and I are arguing against. Just because you lose a die roll for your first preference class doesn't mean you should get stuck with all the leftovers.

Incognito wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'm not sure it's necessary to make everyone roll dies. It might be that all the classes are set except for two people wanting a single class - perhaps just a die roll between those two would settle things.

No that's the point that Kurt Reznor / Kent and I are arguing against. Just because you lose a die roll for your first preference class doesn't mean you should get stuck with all the leftovers.

Why not? If you're not willing to work it out like adults and are instead forcing a die roll, why shouldn't you risk having to pick from the leftovers instead of negatively impacting the whole rest of the party that did work things out like adults? Maybe having a disincentive to the die roll is exactly what some people need to work things out without the die roll.

Fiddy wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'm not sure it's necessary to make everyone roll dies. It might be that all the classes are set except for two people wanting a single class - perhaps just a die roll between those two would settle things.

No that's the point that Kurt Reznor / Kent and I are arguing against. Just because you lose a die roll for your first preference class doesn't mean you should get stuck with all the leftovers.

Why not? If you're not willing to work it out like adults and are instead forcing a die roll, why shouldn't you risk having to pick from the leftovers instead of negatively impacting the whole rest of the party that did work things out like adults? Maybe having a disincentive to the die roll is exactly what some people need to work things out without the die roll.

My concern is making everyone reroll might change several other already finished lines of the party card/create new arguments.

As the rules currently stand, isnt it that all players above level 3 pick classes, then roll off if needed, then all players below level 3 pick classes, then roll off if needed?

Or is my interpretation of the current rule incorrect?


Whether it *should* be that way is a different discussion.

In that discussion, I would agree with Fiddy that it should not be.

Using the forums for signing up is a HORRIBLE idea. I know many people that play that NEVER use the forums and therefore shouldn't be required too.

The current system is perfectly fine and is very clear on who gets priority in class selection. I would change it to "anyone level 6+" and if anyone is below level 6 and a level 6+ player wants that class they get that class. Maybe even level 8+, especially since XP is getting easier to achieve.

Anything that requires for a person do something OUTSIDE of True Dungeon at the Con is just wrong IMO.

Cheers,
Ed

Picc wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'm not sure it's necessary to make everyone roll dies. It might be that all the classes are set except for two people wanting a single class - perhaps just a die roll between those two would settle things.

No that's the point that Kurt Reznor / Kent and I are arguing against. Just because you lose a die roll for your first preference class doesn't mean you should get stuck with all the leftovers.

Why not? If you're not willing to work it out like adults and are instead forcing a die roll, why shouldn't you risk having to pick from the leftovers instead of negatively impacting the whole rest of the party that did work things out like adults? Maybe having a disincentive to the die roll is exactly what some people need to work things out without the die roll.

My concern is making everyone reroll might change several other already finished lines of the party card/create new arguments.

The rules proposal I posted makes it so once the dmcoach starts filling out a line that class must be played by that player.

Frankly that should be the rule no matter what else is decided, along with a requirement that the coach won’t start filling in a card prior to the ticketed start time. (perhaps coaches could look the other way at their discretion).

Irrespective of what the rules are / will be, the one issue I see is that in most cases the new players have no clue as to what the selection criteria are. I would bet that most have not read the players manual and likely have not even attended a True Dungeons 101 session (or trial dungeon).

I think that this may be part of the perceived discontent when a 3rd level player takes the class of a new player who is already in the coaching area. They could feel that they are being "bullied" by a vet, and have no idea if this is right or not.

Could there be some sort of poster or something in the coaching rooms explaining the class selection process? That may help the newer players at a minimum.

Cliff wrote: Irrespective of what the rules are / will be, the one issue I see is that in most cases the new players have no clue as to what the selection criteria are. I would bet that most have not read the players manual and likely have not even attended a True Dungeons 101 session (or trial dungeon).

I think that this may be part of the perceived discontent when a 3rd level player takes the class of a new player who is already in the coaching area. They could feel that they are being "bullied" by a vet, and have no idea if this is right or not.

Could there be some sort of poster or something in the coaching rooms explaining the class selection process? That may help the newer players at a minimum.

We have printed posters outside the coaching rooms. We have printed FAQ sheets in the coaching rooms. Almost no one even glances at them.

At origins while coaching I let the new players know about the qr video link. I didn’t explain class selection though.

How would you explain class selection ?