TOPIC: Change in Ghost Policy

Thanks for all the feedback on this subject. I am sorry for all the chaos with this new Gen Con electronic ticketing system. I got other feedback from other folks via PM and someone raised a very valid point that I can't really dispute.

Problem #1: We don't know what is going to happen at Gen Con regarding ghosting until almost August. We gotta let folks know NOW as it can effect plans for Origins and Gen Con.

Problem #2: If it turns out that we can't do ghosting at Gen Con then we are effectively really dorking collectors over for the whole year since their TEs won't have any good place to be used. That is just not right in my view.

So,..the best course of action is for us to say NOW that there will be no ghosting at Gen Con AND that ALL ghosting restrictions have been lifted from all the other Cons in the 2018-2019 season. I know it kinda sucks in that it encourages a lot of farming at the smaller Cons, but I think I am painted into a corner here.

The reason I think we have to go ahead and say NOW that no ghosting is allowed at Gen Con is so folks can refund/trade their Gen Con tickets now while the time is ripe. Also, I am really worried about major headaches coming our way this year due to the new ticket system, and removing the chance to ghost at Gen Con will make the new system much easier to implement.

So...we don't have a lot of great options...just a least sucky one here. The plan would be to:

1) Announce no ghosting at Gen Con 2018

2) Announce no ghosting restrictions at other Cons during 2018-2019 season. Be ready for some farming to happen but anyone doing so has to wear a straw hat throughout dungeon (just kidding on the last part).


Thoughts?

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for all the feedback on this subject. I am sorry for all the chaos with this new Gen Con electronic ticketing system. I got other feedback from other folks via PM and someone raised a very valid point that I can't really dispute.

Problem #1: We don't know what is going to happen at Gen Con regarding ghosting until almost August. We gotta let folks know NOW as it can effect plans for Origins and Gen Con.

Problem #2: If it turns out that we can't do ghosting at Gen Con then we are effectively really dorking collectors over for the whole year since their TEs won't have any good place to be used. That is just not right in my view.

So,..the best course of action is for us to say NOW that there will be no ghosting at Gen Con AND that ALL ghosting restrictions have been lifted from all the other Cons in the 2018-2019 season. I know it kinda sucks in that it encourages a lot of farming at the smaller Cons, but I think I am painted into a corner here.

The reason I think we have to go ahead and say NOW that no ghosting is allowed at Gen Con is so folks can refund/trade their Gen Con tickets now while the time is ripe. Also, I am really worried about major headaches coming our way this year due to the new ticket system, and removing the chance to ghost at Gen Con will make the new system much easier to implement.

So...we don't have a lot of great options...just a least sucky one here. The plan would be to:

1) Announce no ghosting at Gen Con 2018

2) Announce no ghosting restrictions at other Cons during 2018-2019 season. Be ready for some farming to happen but anyone doing so has to wear a straw hat throughout dungeon (just kidding on the last part).


Thoughts?

Hi Jeff,

I'm totally onboard with no Ghosting at GENCON - although do you mean that you get no treasure enhancing tokens if you do ghost players, or that there is no ghosting period? I'm guessing the latter since the ticketing system may be the problem.

Regarding the smaller conventions, I really think you need to have some restrictions on ghosting. Otherwise, you're in a situation where it's very probable that players can easily turn a profit on ghost players, and token farming could absorb so many tickets that it could keep some actual people from playing.

I don't think Problem Statement #2 "If it turns out that we can't do ghosting at Gen Con then we are effectively really dorking collectors over for the whole year since their TEs won't have any good place to be used." is valid. Players / Collectors could still use their TEs for their own personal use. If you have a Treasure Coin cap of 10 for Ghost players, that still gives up to 7 points of TE to be used for Ghost Players. And, most importantly, people with extra TE tokens still have the option of recruiting players to act as living "ghosts", where the player with the extra TE tokens will pay for the ticket if the person is willing to give them the treasure coins.

To summarize, I'd recommend going with no ghosting at GENCON, and still keeping a cap (10 treasure coins seems reasonable) for ghost players at the smaller conventions. At smaller conventions people with extra TE tokens can have Ghost players with the treasure coin cap or they can recruit players (like newbie runs) with no Treasure Coin cap.

Thanks!
Mike

I agree with Mike. I don't personally see farming as a huge problem, but I also think that a cap of 10 treasure draws is reasonable. Charms of Avarice and other treasure enhancers are still useful, and challenge runs are still a better deal than they would have been at GenCon.

Origins went on sale, and people bought tickets, under the assumption there would be no farming. (Well, most did.) The 9-Ghost/10-TC limit is fine. At this point, everyone had a chance to get their tix, so farmers (if any) will just suck up the excess. So I’d leave Origins as announced. IMO, the best bad option is set a TC cap for satellite cons based on ticket price.

GenCon is more problematic. I’m confused. If they can’t handle ghosting, how will the handle someone who bought all ten tickets? It seems like if you can deal with one you can deal with the other. If they can’t deal with either, then there’s a real problem.

Forget ghosting for a minute. I thought that someone with ten tickets on their account could cash them all in at once, get their wristbands and pass them out. You’re saying that this is not true? Do they have to transfer each individual ticket to different individual badges? What a cluster. I mean, that sounds suboptimal.

What I am worried about is having to refund a ticket at Gen Con if someone no shows on me because I am going to have to know they are going to no show at least 30 limits ahead of time. Usually that works but not always. $78 bucks a no show is just too much for me to eat to not do a refund. Ghosting a no show meant it wasn't necessary.

Brad Mortensen wrote: Forget ghosting for a minute. I thought that someone with ten tickets on their account could cash them all in at once, get their wristbands and pass them out. You’re saying that this is not true? Do they have to transfer each individual ticket to different individual badges? What a cluster. I mean, that sounds suboptimal.

This has never before been an option. TD has always (as far as i know) required the player to hand in a waiver and have the wristband put on their wrist. If you want to ghost, you must have multiple wristbands put on by the check-in people. They never let you go with a wristband not on a wrist.

I recently suggested allowing handing out wristbands to the buyer (and collecting waivers in training) as a potential solution to many issues arising from the e-tickets. Logistics of the buyer needing to check in all 10 players, dealing with late players, and ghosts were all potentially able to be 'fixed' by that method.

But all that is moot if gencon simply wont allow a single player to cash in multiple tickets on a single badge. The e-ticket system as i understand it is that if i bought all 10 tickets, i get my badge scanned, it says i have 9 more tickets, you can then scan up to 9 more badges to have those players use your extra tickets. I expect you can scan only a few, get them in, and cancel out still have more tickets on your account. Those players get to go in, while you as the buyer have to wait for everyone else to show up. Repeat scanning your badge followed by other badges to check them in. If the system doesnt let you scan the same badge to use more than one ticket, there will be no way for TD to allow a ghost.

To be clear: I think zero ghosts at GenCon is a very bad idea. At $78, nobody is going to be farming anyway. All it will do is hurt folks like BC when their hungover friend misses the run.

And if GenCon can’t sort it out, I suggest we opt out and go back to (or just stay with) paper tickets until they do.

Brad Mortensen wrote: To be clear: I think zero ghosts at GenCon is a very bad idea. At $78, nobody is going to be farming anyway. All it will do is hurt folks like BC when their hungover friend misses the run.

And if GenCon can’t sort it out, I suggest we opt out and go back to (or just stay with) paper tickets until they do.

First off, I write this with all due respect and hope to not offend anybody... However (which is always a bad thing to say as a segway)...

Don't say nobody.

I for one am planning on ghosting at GenCon and invested over 40 personal tickets on tickets for runs. I am involved on lots of 5-man teams and am ghosting the other 5 (some the others are ghosting, a couple I am doing all five since $78 is a lot and they want the enjoyment, not necessary the treasure draws). Most of the 40 I am planning on ghosting.

I would be very unhappy if the decision is made to change ghosting for this year's GenCon now that I have already made the purchase. I don't want $$$ in credit from GenCon.

I will support Jeff in his decision, and I am not one to "rage quit" just because I am unhappy about a change. Especially because I want True Adventures to stay in business. I just hope the change is made AFTER this year now that purchase have already occurred.

I would like to try a 1-man run but the cost even at Origins is so great I would like ghosting to be allowed and to get some compensation for the total cost. 10 tokens per ghost is not 18, however it is better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

Mongo wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: To be clear: I think zero ghosts at GenCon is a very bad idea. At $78, nobody is going to be farming anyway. All it will do is hurt folks like BC when their hungover friend misses the run.

And if GenCon can’t sort it out, I suggest we opt out and go back to (or just stay with) paper tickets until they do.

First off, I write this with all due respect and hope to not offend anybody... However (which is always a bad thing to say as a segway)...

Don't say nobody.

I for one am planning on ghosting at GenCon and invested over 40 personal tickets on tickets for runs.

I said “farming,” not “ghosting.”

Farming = running a ghost primarily to grab the loot for a profit.

You’re not “farming.” So I respectfully disagree with, but am not offended by, your disagreement

Brad Mortensen wrote: To be clear: I think zero ghosts at GenCon is a very bad idea. At $78, nobody is going to be farming anyway. All it will do is hurt folks like BC when their hungover friend misses the run.

And if GenCon can’t sort it out, I suggest we opt out and go back to (or just stay with) paper tickets until they do.

This is a good point, the tickets have for the most part all already been sold so no worries about farmers scooping them all up (not that I think that's much of a concern to start with). I think at this point you could probably just allow ghosting this year (at least until we figure out the bumps in the e-ticket process)

kurtreznor wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Forget ghosting for a minute. I thought that someone with ten tickets on their account could cash them all in at once, get their wristbands and pass them out. You’re saying that this is not true? Do they have to transfer each individual ticket to different individual badges? What a cluster. I mean, that sounds suboptimal.

This has never before been an option. TD has always (as far as i know) required the player to hand in a waiver and have the wristband put on their wrist. If you want to ghost, you must have multiple wristbands put on by the check-in people. They never let you go with a wristband not on a wrist.

I recently suggested allowing handing out wristbands to the buyer (and collecting waivers in training) as a potential solution to many issues arising from the e-tickets. Logistics of the buyer needing to check in all 10 players, dealing with late players, and ghosts were all potentially able to be 'fixed' by that method.

But all that is moot if gencon simply wont allow a single player to cash in multiple tickets on a single badge. The e-ticket system as i understand it is that if i bought all 10 tickets, i get my badge scanned, it says i have 9 more tickets, you can then scan up to 9 more badges to have those players use your extra tickets. I expect you can scan only a few, get them in, and cancel out still have more tickets on your account. Those players get to go in, while you as the buyer have to wait for everyone else to show up. Repeat scanning your badge followed by other badges to check them in. If the system doesnt let you scan the same badge to use more than one ticket, there will be no way for TD to allow a ghost.

I have definitely been handed someone else's wristband when I turned in their ticket and waiver for them so wrist is not need. Ticket and waiver is all that has been required in the past in my experience.