TOPIC: Change in Ghost Policy

Mongo wrote: But doesn’t the 2018 season start with GenCon, which means last Pax South and this coming Origins are still 2017 even though in year 2018?

I think N1 at Origins is part of the 2018 season and will have 2018 season mix without monster bits from 2018.

The other runs are part of the 2017 season and will have 2017 season mix with monster bits from 2017.

I suggest that in the future the season start at Origins and end at GameholeCon. Since both of these conventions allow for greater player flexibility in tailoring runs.

I see, for Origins, there are only 68 runs sold out, out of 282 total runs. There are 126 slots with all 10 tickets still available.

So - if Jeff does allow Ghosting with no restrictions, that could result in quite a bit of additional revenue for True Dungeon. It would also be quite a lot of additional treasure pulls entering circulation.

I definitely see the pros and cons of allowing Ghosting at the smaller conventions, at least until the player bases are built up.

If Jeff did change Origins this year to allow Ghosting, that would give us a pretty good idea of how many Ghost runs are purchased.

It does sound like it wouldn't start until after GENCON though, if it is the 2018-2019 Season.

Mike Steele wrote: Out of curiosity, how many tickets are left unsold at Origins, and what percentage unsold is that?

Spending a few minutes on the website, here are the counts I made:
N1 has 1,200 total tickets with 595 tickets left so just under 50% left
Moongate combat has 500 total tickets with 343 left so just under 69% left
Moongate puzzle has 600 total tickets with 389 left so just under 65% left.
Dancing combat has 500 total tickets with 320 left so 64% left
Dancing puzzle has 600 total tickets with 433 left so just under 73% left.

These number include VIP only runs and Volunteer only runs.

There are two separate issues.
1. The electronic ticketing system at Gencon ould work if done well but it is very concerning that they haven’t even tested it with the companies running events. Basic functionality of the system hasn’t even been created (you can’t transfer tickets yet because they haven’t written the code yet.) Ignoring Ghosting for a moment, coaching is likely to become problematic. Picture a run with 2 people who each bought 5 tickets. All tickets are for real people. Person 1 only has 3 of 5 arrive on time so he is waiting outside for the other 2 to show, group 2 all arrives except the person who bought the tickets. Under this scenario, 2 people are in coaching for the first 20 minutes before 1 of group 1’s late people arrive. Add 1 to coaching. 5 minutes later, the leader of group 2 arrives so his group comes in along with the original late person. You now have 5 minutes to complete coaching/set-up for 7 people. Previously, you would have 2 people as last minute arrivals (bad but managable). Another likely scenario will be where 1 player bails but cannot reach the primary ticket holder (cell reception beneath Lucas Oil isn’t great) - the primary person has to wait outside until they feel like they cannot wait anymore forcing last minute coaching problems yet again (and if the late person shows up after the primary ticket holder goes in, they are just out of luck.)

You end up with a lot of coaching rushing much more so than you normally would. You will also end up with tickets not being used that cannot be refunded (though, you had that previously - you just can’t ghost to make up for some of it.)

Jeff - when you do testing with them in June, please play out those scenarios to see if there are logisitical work arounds. Both scenarios will be pretty common.

2. Ghosting is a separate issue. Having a limit for credit per run for ghost slots makes a lot of sense, when runs are bought out just for farming, it means less bew people introduced to TD. Yes, Origins hasn’t sold out - a lot of that is because TD (wisely) chose to run registration separate from Origins (theirs was the single worst event registration I have ever seen for any convention, conference, or even random meet-up group.) quite a few more tickets will sell between now and Origins but it likely won’t sell out (a significant number of pkayers cancelled attending after the train-wreck of registration.) As long as times are available for new players in decent slots (meaning dsitributed widely across times and days), farmers don’t hurt the game. GenCon is different. It likely will sell out - we should have those slots available for actual players.

The complaining on the forums and a small number of people going ballistic over the return fee or having credits with Gencon isn’t reflective of the 99% of the players. I have extra tickets. I will return some and end up losing some money on fees - it happens. It’s happened with $160 D&D games, $150 Cthulhu games, etc.. I may eat some tickets - by comparison, we spent how much money on tokens this year ?

I have confidence that Jeff will test the systems and find work arounds. I a, also 100% ok limiting ghosting (both overall and with token farming.)

Fred

Fred Kessler wrote:

The complaining on the forums and a small number of people going ballistic over the return fee or having credits with Gencon isn’t reflective of the 99% of the players. I have extra tickets. I will return some and end up losing some money on fees - it happens. It’s happened with $160 D&D games, $150 Cthulhu games, etc.. I may eat some tickets - by comparison, we spent how much money on tokens this year ?

I have confidence that Jeff will test the systems and find work arounds. I a, also 100% ok limiting ghosting (both overall and with token farming.)

Fred

Since you are so darn cavalier about giving up the restocking fee, why don’t you offer to pay it for us who obviously don’t have as much money as you that throwing away $150 for you is nothing and you do carelessly and rudely blame on us so called “complainers”??? I thought we were just expressing concerns????

$150 is about the price of two full tickets! That is what I will be out returning tickets originally I could have used when the purchase occurred.

Don’t be such a smuttt with your excusing or blaming those of us who made purchases WITH THE UNDERSTANDING AT PURCHASE TIME WE COULD GHOST,

I see a class action lawsuit coming towards GenCon by changing rules then charging a feee they then capitalize on.

Fred Kessler wrote: There are two separate issues.
1. The electronic ticketing system at Gencon ould work if done well but it is very concerning that they haven’t even tested it with the companies running events. Basic functionality of the system hasn’t even been created (you can’t transfer tickets yet because they haven’t written the code yet.) Ignoring Ghosting for a moment, coaching is likely to become problematic. Picture a run with 2 people who each bought 5 tickets. All tickets are for real people. Person 1 only has 3 of 5 arrive on time so he is waiting outside for the other 2 to show, group 2 all arrives except the person who bought the tickets. Under this scenario, 2 people are in coaching for the first 20 minutes before 1 of group 1’s late people arrive. Add 1 to coaching. 5 minutes later, the leader of group 2 arrives so his group comes in along with the original late person. You now have 5 minutes to complete coaching/set-up for 7 people. Previously, you would have 2 people as last minute arrivals (bad but managable). Another likely scenario will be where 1 player bails but cannot reach the primary ticket holder (cell reception beneath Lucas Oil isn’t great) - the primary person has to wait outside until they feel like they cannot wait anymore forcing last minute coaching problems yet again (and if the late person shows up after the primary ticket holder goes in, they are just out of luck.)

You end up with a lot of coaching rushing much more so than you normally would. You will also end up with tickets not being used that cannot be refunded (though, you had that previously - you just can’t ghost to make up for some of it.)

Jeff - when you do testing with them in June, please play out those scenarios to see if there are logisitical work arounds. Both scenarios will be pretty common.

2. Ghosting is a separate issue. Having a limit for credit per run for ghost slots makes a lot of sense, when runs are bought out just for farming, it means less bew people introduced to TD. Yes, Origins hasn’t sold out - a lot of that is because TD (wisely) chose to run registration separate from Origins (theirs was the single worst event registration I have ever seen for any convention, conference, or even random meet-up group.) quite a few more tickets will sell between now and Origins but it likely won’t sell out (a significant number of pkayers cancelled attending after the train-wreck of registration.) As long as times are available for new players in decent slots (meaning dsitributed widely across times and days), farmers don’t hurt the game. GenCon is different. It likely will sell out - we should have those slots available for actual players.

The complaining on the forums and a small number of people going ballistic over the return fee or having credits with Gencon isn’t reflective of the 99% of the players. I have extra tickets. I will return some and end up losing some money on fees - it happens. It’s happened with $160 D&D games, $150 Cthulhu games, etc.. I may eat some tickets - by comparison, we spent how much money on tokens this year ?

I have confidence that Jeff will test the systems and find work arounds. I a, also 100% ok limiting ghosting (both overall and with token farming.)

Fred

$1k on tokens and with a handful of others $5K+ on tickets.

I will be with a goup showing up around 8am on Thurs and checking in for 3 runs back to back to back. Very easy to make those electronic tickets available to check in at 8am. This is between TD and GenCon to solve.

Fred,

The problem with people posting on forums and not talking in person, one doesn’t see how offensive their inconsiderate words are, and how rude it is to dismiss people with genuine concerns. Others might read it differently, but I found your insensitive and dismissive words greatly offensive.

I have a large family and live on a strict budget. My conference attendance comes out of a tight budget. I have to maintain two different households. My token purchases were budgeted... my airfare same, and conference tickets as well. It is a breach of contract to sell tickets to an event and then change the rules afterwards, even worse if there is a penalty. Jeff’s hands are tied... even he has to abide by a contract. But GenCon has to as well. They should have published these rules in advanced and prohibited people from purchasing more tickets than in their friends list if they were going to prohibit this.

If I offend you or anyone, sorry. I was offended... but I remember my fathers sage advice to me “he who takes offense when offense is not intended is a fool, but he who takes offense when offense is intended is an idiot...”, so, am I a fool or idiot? Neither is what I want to be... so I will have to try to grow a thicker skin.

All I can say at this point is I am glad I have cut back on my runs at GenCon.

But I'm worried about what I will experience as a Coach. A bunch of late parties will be no party for the Coaches.

Except Laz. He can do a party card in 5 minutes blindfolded with one hand tied behind his back.

I have confidence that Jeff will do what he can.

I have near zero confidence in GenCon after reading the following which was posted at < www.gencon.com/forums/32-events-2018/topics/13627-true-dungeon-or-other-etickets-will-not-show-up-on-your-my-packets-page?page=1#47534 > regarding the simple task of transferring your electronic tickets to your friends.

"
Posted by marimaccadmin helenbb 6 days ago
#9

 helenbb wrote:

OK, thanks. My bad in assuming that the implementation would be before August.

I hope it will be, but I have no timeline for when that will be implemented.

Marian McBrine
Event Coordinator
Gen Con LLC"

Harlax wrote: All I can say at this point is I am glad I have cut back on my runs at GenCon.

But I'm worried about what I will experience as a Coach. A bunch of late parties will be no party for the Coaches.

Except Laz. He can do a party card in 5 minutes blindfolded with one hand tied behind his back.

Or partial PUG parties where half the party will provide printed copies of their characters and make it easy for the coach and the other half where the coach will have to help them build their characters.

Mongo wrote:
a lot of stuff with which I agree 100%

Perhaps the people who are concerned about this should take their case to Gen Con's customer service.

After all - we are Gen Con's customers - competent organizations do sometimes listen to their customers.