TOPIC: OLD Rules on Treasure Enhancers & "Ghosting"

Jeff,

Overall I think these rules are reasonable. I do have a couple of comments/suggestions though.

1) I worry that only showing TEs in the coaching room is a step too far back in the other direction, and Eric brings up some good timing questions regarding late arrivals, etc. I agree that perhaps the training room is the proper place to do this. Typically the more TEs players have, the less training they want/need. This would also make sure the tokens are on the run and aren't handed off to somebody else (assuming you had a rule where if you leave the training room after treasure has been determined then you forfeit the run, just like any other room in the dungeon). This would also eliminate the need to restrict access to the coaching rooms, which I agree will make it tough to meet up with your party at times.

2) I worry that no ghosting at smaller conventions will cause the events to NOT sell out. Even with ghosting we had issues not selling out at WYC, for example. To me those were the best places to try creative runs due to the lower ticket costs. Perhaps consider just capping the treasure on ghosts, perhaps even at the base 3 treasure draws. In fact you could just use a cap on ghost treasure all around for treasure draws. At GenCon you could cap ghost treasure draws at say 10 draws, and at smaller conventions cap ghost treasure draws at 5 draws. This may be simpler than controlling the number of ghosts.

I also want to re-iterate how important it will be to publicize this policy and put it in writing ideally in every coaching room and at the check-in counter. Last year at GenCon we had some people who were getting a bunch of 10-packs when ghosting a run *and* still getting the ghost treasure and completion token. As I understand it that was supposed to be for people turning in tickets and *not* going on the run. The choice was supposed to be 8 10-packs (or whatever it was) *or* a wristband for the dungeon.

edwin wrote:

Incognito wrote: ....

For example, at TDC, the length of a run turned out to be much longer than expected due to the trolley ride and the epilogue room (no treasure coins so you had to do the pulls there). If you ended up being late to your next run because of this, how would your TE's be recorded?

Due to the increased length at TDC, I am accounting for 24 minutes extra per run at Origins.

I assume there won't be a need for a 12 minute trolley transfer.

Thank you for the relaxed TE toting rules.

Kirk Bauer wrote: At GenCon you could cap ghost treasure draws...

Please, just... no

and at smaller conventions cap ghost treasure draws at 5 draws.

I think at any event with higher-than-TDC ticket prices, this is the equivalent of "no ghosting," so no point in changing it.

Overall looks good.

Some food for thought:

1. There have been reports of players loaning multiple CoA to multiple parties simultaneously.

I'm not sure these reports are very credible, I assume Jeff would know better than me.

If this is a concern, I don't see really how the current restriction prevents this from continuing. Presumably the people involved knew they were already on the edge / in a gray area.

This seems easy to do without running afoul of any of the rules:

1. Owner hands off 10 CoA outside the entrance to TD to the loanee.
2. Party presents tokens to coach - possibly lying and making a claim of ownership.
3. Player from party collects and returns all 10 CoA to the owner outside TD.
4. Owner starts step 1 again with another party within 30 minutes of the first.

Unless there is some prohibition about players _leaving_ the coaching area after TEs are counted I don't think this will stop anyone who was mass lending to multiple simultaneous parties before - their behavior would barely have to change.


I would like to ensure players ARE allowed to leave the coaching area after the coach visits, and in fact are not required to be anywhere until the party is ushered from the training room to room 1. I use this time to check my bags, and other people use the restroom.


2. I hope TD has a plan for what to do if a coach believes a counterfeit TE has been encountered.

This has the potential to turn incredibly ugly - especially if the person with the TE believed it was legitimate.

bpsymington wrote:

edwin wrote:

Incognito wrote: ....

For example, at TDC, the length of a run turned out to be much longer than expected due to the trolley ride and the epilogue room (no treasure coins so you had to do the pulls there). If you ended up being late to your next run because of this, how would your TE's be recorded?

Due to the increased length at TDC, I am accounting for 24 minutes extra per run at Origins.

I assume there won't be a need for a 12 minute trolley transfer.

Just being on the safe side with the assumption that treasure pulls will have to be done at the end of the run and no treasure chips will be handed out.

Located a map of restrooms and the closest ones are outside Exhibit Hall C. These are the last ones you have before heading down the hallway to get to Exhibit Hall D.

Incognito wrote: This can make things messy if one person on the run has all the tickets and the other people haven't gotten them yet. In the past, a lot of the time the ticket holder is at the coaching area for their time slot, and the other people on the run (e.g. arranged through the forums but don't have their tickets yet) go get the ticket at the coaching area.

I agree, that is a big concern. I have picked up my ticket in the coaching room on many occasions. That is the most convenient place to distribute tickets for runs with forumers.

Jeff321 wrote:

Incognito wrote: This can make things messy if one person on the run has all the tickets and the other people haven't gotten them yet. In the past, a lot of the time the ticket holder is at the coaching area for their time slot, and the other people on the run (e.g. arranged through the forums but don't have their tickets yet) go get the ticket at the coaching area.

I agree, that is a big concern. I have picked up my ticket in the coaching room on many occasions. That is the most convenient place to distribute tickets for runs with forumers.

Same-we have always done it this way for all of the Team Synergy runs. I'm not sure it's feasible to try to do it outside of the coaching room' there is often not much time to spare.

It's a bummer to me about the smaller conventions. I've run a few 3 man runs and things like that due to unsold tickets.

I'm curious if the no ghosting rule will be strictly enforced at GHC/Origins for situations like the 3 man Nightmare run I did with Kirk where a full 10 man party was empty and we bought the tickets to keep it from going unsold and to try the event with 3 people.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Beertram wrote: Thanks, Jeff. That sounds fair to the community as a whole.

I would like to see coaches verify the total with the players in the coaching room. Sometimes the coach doesn't show the party card to the players until they leave and then they realize there was a mistake later on. It looks like I will be a coach at Origins. I will keep this in mind myself.

as I said in the previous post, maybe we can get a small confirmation line to get the party card holder to sign off on ...added to the party card

That sounds like a great idea.

I have been on a number of runs where the coach didn't record the TE tokens for all the players, which is frustrating for having a group who went to the trouble to have 10 CoAs amongst them.

Incognito wrote:
I still think that it might be better to do the check right at the end of training, before they head to the dungeon.

In addition, even under this new system, TE's can still be used on multiple runs if you are willing to give up 1 ticket. For example, under the rules, one player can wear wristbands for 12 PM, 12:12 PM, 12:24 PM, 12:36 PM, and 12:48 PM. They are able to have access to each of those areas and use their 10 CoA's. Obviously, they won't be able to go on all the runs so most of them will be 1 person short. But this is theoretically possible and shows how TE's can be used in simultaneous runs.

I think the idea of checking the TE tokens in the training room is a good idea, since only the people on the run should be in the training room. Perhaps if the enforcement of the wristband is performed at that time, it would resolve ticketing issues.

Also, if the policy is that once you enter the training room, you only leave to go on the adventure (and in the coaching room, players are told bathroom breaks have to be done before entering the training room).
If someone shows up with TE tokens and then leaves before the adventure starts, all the TE tokens they showed are crossed off, and the standard 3 treasure tokens for each are forfeited.
This would stop the above wristband "spamming".

I would suggest the TE confirmation be performed once players are settled into their test practices, since at the end, you would have a rush to put the tokens away, and would be anticlimactic for getting psyched for going on the run.

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for giving guidance, although I do share the concerns of some others.

I do distribute the tickets to our group, and they do often meet me in the coaching area to get the tickets. If they can't wait for me there, will there be an alternate meeting site?

These rules do seem to enable Treasure Enhancing tokens to be used on multiple simultaneous runs. It would be easy for someone to leave the coaching area and hand them off to another group after they are verified by the coach. It seems like some sort of check in the epilogue room is needed to verify they were carried through the Dungeon. Preferably right as they exit the last room, so someone can't hand them the tokens in the epilogue room before the check. I'd recommend for this check that it is OK if the tokens are in a binder or something similar since their authenticity was verified in the coaching room.

When you say no ghosting at smaller cons, do you mean ghost players are allowed but get no treasure coins, completion tokens, or starting 10 pack of tokens?

I do REALLY appreciate that each person doesn't have to carry the tokens individually. People who wanted to break that rule would have, and those of us who followed it had a greatly increased risk of losing a valuable TE token.

Thanks!
Mike

It was easier to marshal players and distribute tickets when the check in desk was adjacent to the coaching area rather than outside the storyscape.

I did have to bounce back and forth between coaching room and check in desk for a run where I held all 10 tickets last year and it only worked well as I had a preprinted party card.


I understand the need for a different format at the smaller cons. What about a tighter restriction on the number of ghosts? Maybe 2 rather than 5 at Origins and GHC. None at TDC (here's hoping it happens again).


Obviously coaches and certain other volunteers are exceptions to the coaching area rule. How do we track that?


If the Badge Nazi shows up in my coaching room again can I enforce the rule on him?