TOPIC: Missed GenCon, Game Hole Con exp for 2016?

Forar wrote:

Harlax wrote: I do think one outcome of a system like this will be increased XP to gain levels. Take a new player who is running with a group that can provide gear to make the group hardcore capable. Like mine. All my son's friends are from Wisconsin. So a second con is easy. They could be 5th level in just two years.

It occurs to me that this is already true.

One can make level 5 under the conditions you note in 3 Gencons, which are literally 2 years apart (give or take a few days). A 5k cap and exp at the other cons would speed things up a bit, but not massively so; roughly 1.5 years, assuming attendance at 4 cons in a row (a WYC, 2 Gencon's and a GHC) plus full completion of a high exp dungeon or two at each.

I mean, I'm just a casual player, but if someone wanted to dedicate those kinds of finances (and had the group, time, luck, and other resources) to make it happen.. okay?

I'm guessing the top 100 (or whatever it is) exp list folks would have more concerns than someone getting to level 5 a bit faster.

I think the system should actually be designed specifically to not increase the amount of XP allowed per year. The cap per year is currently 4,000, I think that should remain the cap per year regardless of how many conventions allow XP. And I think it should still be your highest single XP on two separate Dungeons to count for that XP, as it is now.

I'm in the top 100 (not that far in), but I made it 2-3 years ago. If people with money and resources were able to make 3 cons/year and pass me, I really don't have a problem with that. Why not? Because I would have the same opportunity they do. Maybe I don't have the same money and resources, but if they're willing to dedicate themselves to moving up the list, I have absolutely no problem with that.

Besides, right now it takes over 26K points to get into the top 100. I don't know what the new cap would be, but even if they allowed 4K pts per con for 12k pts per year (and I really don't see it going this far) it would take 3 years to get into the top 100 assuming the people there weren't also getting more points. More realistically it would take 4 or 5 years. If someone wants to put in that kind of dedication, they are probably spending a lot of cash on TD, which is overall good for the game.

Yes, there is probably a bigger concern from people just outside the top 100 being able to get there in a year or two. But again, if it means they are devoting more time and money to the game, that is good for all of us.

Oh for me personally, getting 4k at GenCon and 1K each at WYC and GHC would be nothing short of spectacular. Based on where I live, where I am in my career path (flexibility and purchasing power) I could crank the XP.

But there are some pretty awesome long term players for whom 3 Cons just won't be possible. And for whom even two would be a stretch.

There are plenty of reasons other than XP to do these additional Cons.

Loot leaps to mind...

Harlax wrote: Oh for me personally, getting 4k at GenCon and 1K each at WYC and GHC would be nothing short of spectacular. Based on where I live, where I am in my career path (flexibility and purchasing power) I could crank the XP.

But there are some pretty awesome long term players for whom 3 Cons just won't be possible. And for whom even two would be a stretch.

There are plenty of reasons other than XP to do these additional Cons.

Loot leaps to mind...

I actually wonder if the reason the treasure box mix was made with a higher percentage of special tokens was for these other conventions True Dungeon is expanding into. GENCON clearly doesn't need help selling out at this point, but if the odds of getting great treasure increases attendance at these additional conventions, that's a huge boost for True Dungeon. It's also a reason why I won't be surprised if there is a new loot token in the 2017 Token Set, because if new players get them, it might make it more likely they will come back as well, and maybe make the trek to additional conventions.

Mike Steele wrote: The second position (argued pretty strenuously in 2010) was that since it was a Retro Dungeon of the 2003 adventure, someone running it should be allowed to get 2003 XP as if they had actually ran the Dungeon in 2003. "Catch Up" XP, it was explained. Fortunately that wasn't allowed.

Yeah - that position I don't like. I see the logic (you get xp once per module, no matter where it is presented), but I don't agree.

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: Oh for me personally, getting 4k at GenCon and 1K each at WYC and GHC would be nothing short of spectacular. Based on where I live, where I am in my career path (flexibility and purchasing power) I could crank the XP.

But there are some pretty awesome long term players for whom 3 Cons just won't be possible. And for whom even two would be a stretch.

There are plenty of reasons other than XP to do these additional Cons.

Loot leaps to mind...

I actually wonder if the reason the treasure box mix was made with a higher percentage of special tokens was for these other conventions True Dungeon is expanding into. GENCON clearly doesn't need help selling out at this point, but if the odds of getting great treasure increases attendance at these additional conventions, that's a huge boost for True Dungeon. It's also a reason why I won't be surprised if there is a new loot token in the 2017 Token Set, because if new players get them, it might make it more likely they will come back as well, and maybe make the trek to additional conventions.

I'd be totally Ok with another rare +1 treasure token that stacks with the Lenses, but not the URTEs. I think that would accomplish your goal.

As for the XP, I'm sure Jeff will make the decision that makes the most business sense for TD.

Mike Steele wrote:

Dave wrote:

Picc wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Sargonnax wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Sargonnax, since you bring up cost:

Tickets at GenCon are at least 40% more expensive than the alt cons. The production values and treasure is the same.

The fact that you don't get player XP there is, IMO, a small trade off for the huge discount. For the casual player, anyway.

Yes you are correct, but I intend to play regularly since this years Gen Con and would rather pay more money to get exp, though I don't see why I would have to pay an extra $16 just to get experience. When I originally saw the lower cost for TD at GHC I figured it was because TD is new to that smaller convention and it would attract more people to an awesome event, but TD is now popular enough the exp system needs to change.

I don't really see a connection between the lower cost of runs at WYC and GHC and the lack of XP. I figure the lower ticket price is probably due in part to an attempt to build up a player base at those conventions and in part due to the likely lower cost to set up there.

I would assume it has something to do with what gencon charges for space. Thats just an assumption though.

I would assume the same thing. I can't imagine the Alliant Energy Center in Madison to cost anywhere near as much as Lucas Oil Field. Also, I would image TD cost of volunteers is much higher for Gen Con (hotel cost, etc). So overall, I don't imagine GHC to cost as much.

Also, unless Jeff expects exposure at GHC to generate a lot more token sales, I can't imagine them taking a loss. Gen Con is always a sell out, so there's no need to generate more interest in Gen Con. This has got to be about token sales or actually making money at these other cons (or at least breaking even), or why do it?

I'm also wondering if expanding at these other cons is a way to look for alternate revenue streams to help take some of the pressure off Gen Con. I understand Gen Con still sold out quickly this year, but how many more price hikes can it take before more people question if its worth it.

I personally hope we don't continue to see price hikes at GENCON every year. Every year I wince when I send the prices out to my group, wondering if the new price would drive them to quit. Some have quit, but most haven't yet. I'm hoping the prices don't get beyond their willingness to pay.

Ive already been quietly suplimenting my friends and family groups tickets for a few years.

Ya the ticket was fifty something, just throw fifty at me, dont worry about the exchange rate. Ya they really are getting expensive etc etc

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: Oh for me personally, getting 4k at GenCon and 1K each at WYC and GHC would be nothing short of spectacular. Based on where I live, where I am in my career path (flexibility and purchasing power) I could crank the XP.

But there are some pretty awesome long term players for whom 3 Cons just won't be possible. And for whom even two would be a stretch.

There are plenty of reasons other than XP to do these additional Cons.

Loot leaps to mind...

I actually wonder if the reason the treasure box mix was made with a higher percentage of special tokens was for these other conventions True Dungeon is expanding into. GENCON clearly doesn't need help selling out at this point, but if the odds of getting great treasure increases attendance at these additional conventions, that's a huge boost for True Dungeon. It's also a reason why I won't be surprised if there is a new loot token in the 2017 Token Set, because if new players get them, it might make it more likely they will come back as well, and maybe make the trek to additional conventions.

I saw no evidence that the treasure boxes had a higher percentage of special tokens.

I'm in favor of a 4K annual cap, with you earning XP for your two highest dungeon adventures. The problem would be if you earn XP at one con, but then earn greater XP at the next con, can the system replace con 1 XP with con 2 XP? Can the system recognize an annual limit, as opposed to multiple runs of the same adventure not giving additional XP? The adventures are not the same.

I can't imagine not having XP at non-GC events would hurt TD at all.

bpsymington wrote: I can't imagine not having XP at non-GC events would hurt TD at all.

Too many negatives in that sentence for me to parse...

Are you saying not having XP at non-GC events would hurt TD?

Or that not having XP at non-GC events would not hurt TD?

Or having XP at non-GC events would not hurt TD?

Hmm... I can see valid points all around. I don't consider myself to be a "power player" who is in the Top 50 or Top 100. In fact, I seriously doubt I ever get even close. I play TD because its fun. My main goal is to survive, with loot being icing on the cake (at least at this point I do). So, here is my two cents:

1) Put a solid level cap in place. 4k or 5k. Either one would do just fine.

2) Make Retro dungeons half XPs if you haven't done it before, zero if you have. Easy enough, TD already tracks which dungeons you have done and which ones you haven't.

3) Put a loot cap of 14 tokens due to tokens, such as CoA etc., per run. Tokens gained through wheeling and dealing wouldn't count as these would be considered part of a token trade, which aren't affected by loot tokens.

4) Allow players to choose between loot tokens and loot tickets (1 token = 1 ticket). Loot tickets would be random but could be anything from a free soda or hot dog, to a free booster, or ticket to another con TD is going to be at. Maybe if TD got popular enough, tickets could even be cash prizes from $1 to $5,000 (as can be had at other events). "Cash" tickets might be a donation made to a particular charity or one of the winner's choice. Etc., etc.

5) True redux dungeons shouldn't offer any XPs but maybe offer two extra loot tickets (see above) plus one per level of difficulty over non-lethal. If possible, offer extra loot tokens, subject to a loot token limit and never more than +2.

6) What cons TD plans to be at should, what dungeons (and whether they are normal, retro or redux) are going to be there and the cost for tickets there should be posted at the beginning of each year, or two years in advance if that is possible and feasible.

7) Any policy changes should be made public two years before they are implemented. Why two years? Makes it a lot easier on the chronic planners. Also, players who have to put up with employers, like mine, who make you commit to a vacation schedule at the beginning of each year might like a little wiggle room.

Which cons offer how much XP shouldn't matter imo. Play where you want and have fun. Yeah leveling is fine and all but after level 6, its not really all that important (not to me anyways). Keep in mind that players knowing the solutions to puzzles etc. is a moot point already as many players already do more than two runs, just to get extra loot tokens. At gencon earlier this year, I overheard a conversation that went something like this:

Player1: Hey, Player2! Want to join us on another run?

Player2: No thanks. I have done four already today, I think I am gonna hit the dealers area before going to dinner with the wife and kids.

Player1: No problem. We are thinking of doing some more runs again tomorrow if you want to join us. Just text me and let me know by 9am if you want to do some more runs again tomorrow.

Player2: Ok, will do.

I don't know if its true or not but some players have claimed that they have gotten over 100 loot tokens in one day of TD. Even assuming they are one of the true elite players who has 10 CoA, this would still require a lot of runs. Two if you can talk other players into really harsh terms (which I kind of doubt) but more likely you are talking about 5 to 6 runs.



PS

Can't believe this is already nine pages long!