TOPIC: Missed GenCon, Game Hole Con exp for 2016?

Here is a survey I invite everyone to take on this topic:

www.surveymonkey.com/r/XVWCGWH

You will see the community results when you complete your survey (absent the free text options).

Once everyone has had a chance to respond, I will post the results, including the free text options, here.

Cavor wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Cavor wrote: Ah, forum games, the last refuge of the narcissistic idiot.

I don't know what is sadder, the fact that some one did that or the fact that they care too much to do that.

which post are you talking about

The obvious one.

You may think you are being clear, but you really are not. I looked around and have no idea what you could possibly be referencing.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Cavor wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Cavor wrote: Ah, forum games, the last refuge of the narcissistic idiot.

I don't know what is sadder, the fact that some one did that or the fact that they care too much to do that.

which post are you talking about

The obvious one.

You may think you are being clear, but you really are not. I looked around and have no idea what you could possibly be referencing.

I didn't see any posts that looked like "forum games" either. And whichever post was being referred to, I thought the insult was inappropriate.

Brad Mortensen wrote: Sargonnax, since you bring up cost:

Tickets at GenCon are at least 40% more expensive than the alt cons. The production values and treasure is the same.

The fact that you don't get player XP there is, IMO, a small trade off for the huge discount. For the casual player, anyway.

Yes you are correct, but I intend to play regularly since this years Gen Con and would rather pay more money to get exp, though I don't see why I would have to pay an extra $16 just to get experience. When I originally saw the lower cost for TD at GHC I figured it was because TD is new to that smaller convention and it would attract more people to an awesome event, but TD is now popular enough the exp system needs to change.

Sargonnax wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Sargonnax, since you bring up cost:

Tickets at GenCon are at least 40% more expensive than the alt cons. The production values and treasure is the same.

The fact that you don't get player XP there is, IMO, a small trade off for the huge discount. For the casual player, anyway.

Yes you are correct, but I intend to play regularly since this years Gen Con and would rather pay more money to get exp, though I don't see why I would have to pay an extra $16 just to get experience. When I originally saw the lower cost for TD at GHC I figured it was because TD is new to that smaller convention and it would attract more people to an awesome event, but TD is now popular enough the exp system needs to change.

I don't really see a connection between the lower cost of runs at WYC and GHC and the lack of XP. I figure the lower ticket price is probably due in part to an attempt to build up a player base at those conventions and in part due to the likely lower cost to set up there.

Mike Steele wrote:

Sargonnax wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Sargonnax, since you bring up cost:

Tickets at GenCon are at least 40% more expensive than the alt cons. The production values and treasure is the same.

The fact that you don't get player XP there is, IMO, a small trade off for the huge discount. For the casual player, anyway.

Yes you are correct, but I intend to play regularly since this years Gen Con and would rather pay more money to get exp, though I don't see why I would have to pay an extra $16 just to get experience. When I originally saw the lower cost for TD at GHC I figured it was because TD is new to that smaller convention and it would attract more people to an awesome event, but TD is now popular enough the exp system needs to change.

I don't really see a connection between the lower cost of runs at WYC and GHC and the lack of XP. I figure the lower ticket price is probably due in part to an attempt to build up a player base at those conventions and in part due to the likely lower cost to set up there.

I would assume it has something to do with what gencon charges for space. Thats just an assumption though.

Picc wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Sargonnax wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Sargonnax, since you bring up cost:

Tickets at GenCon are at least 40% more expensive than the alt cons. The production values and treasure is the same.

The fact that you don't get player XP there is, IMO, a small trade off for the huge discount. For the casual player, anyway.

Yes you are correct, but I intend to play regularly since this years Gen Con and would rather pay more money to get exp, though I don't see why I would have to pay an extra $16 just to get experience. When I originally saw the lower cost for TD at GHC I figured it was because TD is new to that smaller convention and it would attract more people to an awesome event, but TD is now popular enough the exp system needs to change.

I don't really see a connection between the lower cost of runs at WYC and GHC and the lack of XP. I figure the lower ticket price is probably due in part to an attempt to build up a player base at those conventions and in part due to the likely lower cost to set up there.

I would assume it has something to do with what gencon charges for space. Thats just an assumption though.

Oh, I agree, like I said, I'd guess that higher rent costs at GENCON is a large reason the ticket prices are higher. I just doubt the decision to not offer XP has anything to do with the lower ticket prices. I recall in the early days of True Dungeon at WYC the reason given why there was no XP was that there weren't enough tickets to take care of everyone that might want to get XP there. It seems like that might not be a valid reason though.

Picc wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Sargonnax wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Sargonnax, since you bring up cost:

Tickets at GenCon are at least 40% more expensive than the alt cons. The production values and treasure is the same.

The fact that you don't get player XP there is, IMO, a small trade off for the huge discount. For the casual player, anyway.

Yes you are correct, but I intend to play regularly since this years Gen Con and would rather pay more money to get exp, though I don't see why I would have to pay an extra $16 just to get experience. When I originally saw the lower cost for TD at GHC I figured it was because TD is new to that smaller convention and it would attract more people to an awesome event, but TD is now popular enough the exp system needs to change.

I don't really see a connection between the lower cost of runs at WYC and GHC and the lack of XP. I figure the lower ticket price is probably due in part to an attempt to build up a player base at those conventions and in part due to the likely lower cost to set up there.

I would assume it has something to do with what gencon charges for space. Thats just an assumption though.

I would assume the same thing. I can't imagine the Alliant Energy Center in Madison to cost anywhere near as much as Lucas Oil Field. Also, I would image TD cost of volunteers is much higher for Gen Con (hotel cost, etc). So overall, I don't imagine GHC to cost as much.

Also, unless Jeff expects exposure at GHC to generate a lot more token sales, I can't imagine them taking a loss. Gen Con is always a sell out, so there's no need to generate more interest in Gen Con. This has got to be about token sales or actually making money at these other cons (or at least breaking even), or why do it?

I'm also wondering if expanding at these other cons is a way to look for alternate revenue streams to help take some of the pressure off Gen Con. I understand Gen Con still sold out quickly this year, but how many more price hikes can it take before more people question if its worth it.

Dave wrote:

Picc wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Sargonnax wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Sargonnax, since you bring up cost:

Tickets at GenCon are at least 40% more expensive than the alt cons. The production values and treasure is the same.

The fact that you don't get player XP there is, IMO, a small trade off for the huge discount. For the casual player, anyway.

Yes you are correct, but I intend to play regularly since this years Gen Con and would rather pay more money to get exp, though I don't see why I would have to pay an extra $16 just to get experience. When I originally saw the lower cost for TD at GHC I figured it was because TD is new to that smaller convention and it would attract more people to an awesome event, but TD is now popular enough the exp system needs to change.

I don't really see a connection between the lower cost of runs at WYC and GHC and the lack of XP. I figure the lower ticket price is probably due in part to an attempt to build up a player base at those conventions and in part due to the likely lower cost to set up there.

I would assume it has something to do with what gencon charges for space. Thats just an assumption though.

I would assume the same thing. I can't imagine the Alliant Energy Center in Madison to cost anywhere near as much as Lucas Oil Field. Also, I would image TD cost of volunteers is much higher for Gen Con (hotel cost, etc). So overall, I don't imagine GHC to cost as much.

Also, unless Jeff expects exposure at GHC to generate a lot more token sales, I can't imagine them taking a loss. Gen Con is always a sell out, so there's no need to generate more interest in Gen Con. This has got to be about token sales or actually making money at these other cons (or at least breaking even), or why do it?

I'm also wondering if expanding at these other cons is a way to look for alternate revenue streams to help take some of the pressure off Gen Con. I understand Gen Con still sold out quickly this year, but how many more price hikes can it take before more people question if its worth it.

I personally hope we don't continue to see price hikes at GENCON every year. Every year I wince when I send the prices out to my group, wondering if the new price would drive them to quit. Some have quit, but most haven't yet. I'm hoping the prices don't get beyond their willingness to pay.

One precedent here exists: in 2010 at Gen Con there was a retro/redux production of TD's earlier 2003 The Five Aspects adventure, for which full XP was awarded.

So anyone who wishes to argue that retro/redux dungeons shouldn't grant full XP will hopefully also be willing to forfeit some/all of XP they have from that adventure.

Matthew Hayward wrote: One precedent here exists: in 2010 at Gen Con there was a retro/redux production of TD's earlier 2003 The Five Aspects adventure, for which full XP was awarded.

So anyone who wishes to argue that retro/redux dungeons shouldn't grant full XP will hopefully also be willing to forfeit some/all of XP they have from that adventure.

I think there are two positions people have taken. One is that since it is a Retro Dungeon, full current year XP shouldn't be awarded. I don't agree with that, because like you said in 2010 at GENCON and True Realm it was awarded full XP.

The second position (argued pretty strenuously in 2010) was that since it was a Retro Dungeon of the 2003 adventure, someone running it should be allowed to get 2003 XP as if they had actually ran the Dungeon in 2003. "Catch Up" XP, it was explained. Fortunately that wasn't allowed.

Harlax wrote: I do think one outcome of a system like this will be increased XP to gain levels. Take a new player who is running with a group that can provide gear to make the group hardcore capable. Like mine. All my son's friends are from Wisconsin. So a second con is easy. They could be 5th level in just two years.

It occurs to me that this is already true.

One can make level 5 under the conditions you note in 3 Gencons, which are literally 2 years apart (give or take a few days). A 5k cap and exp at the other cons would speed things up a bit, but not massively so; roughly 1.5 years, assuming attendance at 4 cons in a row (a WYC, 2 Gencon's and a GHC) plus full completion of a high exp dungeon or two at each.

I mean, I'm just a casual player, but if someone wanted to dedicate those kinds of finances (and had the group, time, luck, and other resources) to make it happen.. okay?

I'm guessing the top 100 (or whatever it is) exp list folks would have more concerns than someone getting to level 5 a bit faster.