TOPIC: Missed GenCon, Game Hole Con exp for 2016?

Thank you to the 47 people who took the survey so far. It is still open and you can take it, but I think that's most of the people who will participate.

You may review the results here:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-Z6BZBV3M/

As of now, here are the results:

1. What is your preference with regard to an annual XP cap for True Dungeon Events?

No cap: 10
Capped, but higher than the XP available from any 1 convention: 14
Capped at the XP available from any 1 convention: 19
Other: 4

(See below for Other responses)

2. If you could earn additional XP by attending more than just Gen Con, how would it affect your participation at various True Dungeon events?

Participate more: 22
No change to participation: 22
Participate less: 3

3. How is earning XP only at Gen Con affecting your participation at various True Dungeon events?

Participate more: 1
No change to participation: 30
Participate less: 15

4. If there were to be a change in the way XP is distributed at True Dungeon events, how much advanced notice would you like?

None - change at will: 7
Concurrent with announcement of new event times and locations: 20
Substantially before any announcement of new event times and locations: 18
Other: 2

(See Other responses below)

5. How much XP should be given for "retro" dungeons that are essentially identical to prior year dungeons?

None: 6
Partial: 20
Full XP: 21

6. How much XP should be given for "redux" dungeons that combine rooms from various years, the current year, and possibly some new rooms?

None: 4
Partial: 22
Full XP: 21

7. What other information should be considered?

(Each bullet is from a different person's response).

• For #5 - full XP should only be given to those who haven't previously done that adventure.
• The idea that was pushed at the forum was great. I like having the 4K max at GenCon. With another 1K available outside of GenCon per each con. Example Gencona Max 4K, WYC Max 1K (500 Normal / 1K HC/NM) and an addiational 1K Max at GameoleCon (500 Normal 1K HC/NM).
• While I appreciate the dedication and support of veteran players in the community; gaining and capping XP to benefit the few at the top of the leader board is an elitist attitude. Running any dungeon should grant XP, except running the same dungeon twice should not for the second time (using the highest difficulty as the XP gained). An argument can be made for lesser XP gain for Retro or Redux dungeons or lesser XP gains for the smaller Cons. Capping XP to keep the top players safely on the top of the list is a bad practice.
• retro dungeons XP should match the original XP but not be extra to having already done the run
• why are we worrying about what the top-xyz players on the xp list think about this? its because they have been around the longest and have supported TD for the longest time. now, i would argue that by attending these additional "minor" cons that TD has events at, those people are also supporting TD and should get XP for doing so. the top player list will change based on who can attend the most cons, which in my mind, means supporting TD the most since buying tokens is certainly a big way to support TD, but showing up and playing is more important, because without anyone showing up, there is no game.
• The needs of the many, out weigh the needs of the few (top 50)
• For those of us who live out of country and can't attend anything except Gencon, adding XP for other events doesn't particularly affect us. But if you're going to charge the $56 or whatever for rerunning an old dungeon, people should be eligible for the XP. It's costing them just as much. If they're free or at a reduced rate, that's different. Then partial XP makes more sense. Also, there really should be some kind of rule about rerunning a mod you've already done for XP, that give a major and unfair advantage to people who can afford to attend all three TD events and they basically go through and answer all the questions while the new folks feel useless. Perhaps if you've already done it (and it's recorded), half XP and no treasure. This will prevent power gamers from ruining the experience for others who are new to the game.
• It all boils down to does the powers that be favor the side 'who can only make 1 convention period' or the side that can and will travel? I admit i'm planning on driving 10 hours for a no name con due to TD being played there. That said i support 1 con's worth of xp cap a year, doesn't matter the con you hit but each con is equal for what you can get in a year.
• You should be able to max out at Gencon. Living in MD hard to make multiples even though we did go to WYC 2016.
• It. Is difficult to both volunteer and run at the smaller cons. There is potential to damage. The volunteer base.
• Keep Gen Con the higher profile, but encourage people to go to these other cons by offering a smaller amount of XP per dungeon, but cap the total per year.
• The dedication of the players from the beginning is important as is the players that go to other cons. Just something everyone should keep in mind.
• New content (GC) should account for 80% of yearly XP cap and any other con could account for 20% of the yearly cap.
• I think we should have a flat cap per year. Let the players decide where to get it.
• A retro dungeon at another con should allow players who never got to play that dungeon a way to get the XP, but should not allow players who have done it before to earn more XP than the max for playing it once at maximum difficulty.
• I believe the TD new year should start with gencon, this gencon 2016, GHC2016, and WYC2017 would be same year
• I don't have a strong preference either way on this issue. I believe that things cost more at GenCon and that is just how it is. I do believe that other Cons should give some XP.
• XP per run should be the same at any convention with the same 4000 per year limit currently in place so anyone who wants to play can attend based on their own availability and gain equally
• True Dungeon is popular enough that experience should be offered at all events. The fact that it is not is a big negative for me and will affect how much money I spend on TD events.
• Seems to me the best way to do retro dungeons is just have a flat half-XP of Gen Con dungeons (possibly adjusting level XP accordingly), and damn the consequences, but I admit that I have no stake in the high-XP epeen contest.

OTHER responses from question 1:

• Personally, it would be advantageous for me to have no XP cap. Although I am in the Top 20 for XP, this would help me catch up with those higher than me who are unable to attend the other cons. However, I benefit from living in the Midwest. It would be rather unfair for those on the East and West Coasts to fall behind in XP because they can't make it to the Midwest *three* times a year!
• Capped at 5K per year, 2K per dungeon at Gen Con, 1K from any other - so someone could get 2K from a set up like GHC this year.
• No XP cap, XP only for Unique NEW dungeons whereever they are.
• max XP at GC..can get it from mult cons though

OTHER responses from question 4:

• Adequate notice.
• 2 years

Matthew Hayward wrote: Thank you to the 47 people who took the survey so far. It is still open and you can take it, but I think that's most of the people who will participate.

You may review the results here:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-Z6BZBV3M/

...

For me, the key takeaways are:

1. Most people want an increase in the annual XP available via either no XP cap, or a cap higher than can be obtained at any one con - but it is close: 26 versus 21 (this interprets the "other" responses as having 2 votes for the former and two for the later).


2. Not having XP at non-Gen Con events is reducing participation:

* 22 of 47 people said they would participate more if the other events had XP, versus 3 who said they would participate less

* 15 of 47 people said having XP only at Gen Con is causing them to participate less, versus 2 who said it is causing them to participate more.

3. There is near unanimity (~90%) that non-Gen Con events should offer some or full XP for retro/redux dungeons.

4. People want plenty of advanced notice to changes in the XP system, with 39 out of 47 people wanting it to be announced concurrent with announcement of presentations at new cons or sooner.

Hershel wrote: PS

Can't believe this is already nine pages long!

nine pages? As you can see, that's nothing.

Incognito wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

bpsymington wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Picc wrote: I don't think groups should be pandered to in terms or XP, truthfully I don't think we should do anything that emphasises the XP system since its kind of broken and I cant see a good reason to draw people attention to that until its fixed. Im not on the top 100 page, I dont really care if new people can crack it or not. I'd be just as happy if XP went away entirely or was replaced by a different loyalty program.

I agree with you.

I also wouldn't mind if the XP system went away entirely.

One flaw right now is that it is entirely on the honor system. Someone can play Non-Lethal, get the XP code, and simply give themselves full Hardcore/Nightmare XP.

True, but people who do that have to live with themselves.

A part of the current XP system is honor system, but not all. You actually have to have a certificate for each Dungeon in order to enter XP, so (unless you somehow obtain them on the black market) you have to do a run on each Dungeon to get experience for them. And, you can't go back and alter past XP (at least past 2-3 years ago). I do agree that there are no controls on listing what type of Dungeon you ran, or how far you got in it.

Yeah, the other honor system part is that you can simply obtain a code (off of eBay) and enter it in.

Looks like you can still enter XP from up to 2013. So that is 4 years worth of XP (2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016).

I think there was only one code listed on Ebay, and I think that auction was pulled. So, that doesn't seem like a viable route.

Even though you can enter codes for those past years, you still need codes to do so - except maybe for 2013 I think, which was pretty messed up.

Dave wrote:

Hershel wrote: PS

Can't believe this is already nine pages long!

nine pages? As you can see, that's nothing.

I know but as a hopeless plea, please don't encourage it. This thread been moderately informative and active discussion a touch subject been relative peaceful/on topic.

Matthew Hayward wrote: 3. There is near unanimity (~90%) that non-Gen Con events should offer some or full XP for retro/redux dungeons.

I agree, but I am surprised the % is that high actually.

Also this would be good for new players too, who discover TD at one of the smaller cons.

Jeff321 wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: 3. There is near unanimity (~90%) that non-Gen Con events should offer some or full XP for retro/redux dungeons.

I agree, but I am surprised the % is that high actually.

Also this would be good for new players too, who discover TD at one of the smaller cons.

I'm not surprised. I think the main questions are "how much" and "what is the annual cap."

Then there are the practical/logistical questions of how to make it work.

Also not surprised considering it was only 47 people that were voting which represents what percent of the TD community? So it is interesting but I don't know that it tells us much about what the community wants, just what the 47 of us that voted chose.

jedibcg wrote: Also not surprised considering it was only 47 people that were voting which represents what percent of the TD community? So it is interesting but I don't know that it tells us much about what the community wants, just what the 47 of us that voted chose.

What percentage of the TD community is on the forum?

What percentage of the forum is active?

What percentage of the active forumites took the survey?

Not looking for answers, just noting that the sample is pretty small.

bpsymington wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Also not surprised considering it was only 47 people that were voting which represents what percent of the TD community? So it is interesting but I don't know that it tells us much about what the community wants, just what the 47 of us that voted chose.

What percentage of the TD community is on the forum?

What percentage of the forum is active?

What percentage of the active forumites took the survey?

Not looking for answers, just noting that the sample is pretty small.

That is what I was attempting to say, though more than just forumites did take the survey.

bpsymington wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Also not surprised considering it was only 47 people that were voting which represents what percent of the TD community? So it is interesting but I don't know that it tells us much about what the community wants, just what the 47 of us that voted chose.

What percentage of the TD community is on the forum?

What percentage of the forum is active?

What percentage of the active forumites took the survey?

Not looking for answers, just noting that the sample is pretty small.

Agreed, sample size of the whole community is small, but probably represents a larger percentage of token purchases, so it is a meaningful group.

I've noted that 28 different people have posted to this thread, so we picked up 19 more people in the survey who otherwise haven't voiced an opinion. I think that makes the survey worthwhile.

jedibcg wrote: Also not surprised considering it was only 47 people that were voting which represents what percent of the TD community? So it is interesting but I don't know that it tells us much about what the community wants, just what the 47 of us that voted chose.

It's better than you might think. In a population of 10,000 people 96 respondents will give you answers within a 10% margin of error.

With a 12% margin of error, a population of 10,000, and a 90% confidence interval 47 respondents are needed:

www.raosoft.com/samplesize.html

So - there is a 90% chance that the breakdowns we observe are within 12% of the accurate values of the community assuming random sampling.

So, while you can perhaps quibble with sampling bias (e.g. who was invited to take the survey was not random), the following claims hold up even considering the sample size:

* A strong majority agrees retro/redux dungeons should grant some XP.

* A roughly even split (be it 35/65 or 50/50) exists between the propositions that XP should be capped at one con's worth, versus there should be more XP available.

* Participation is being reduced by there only being XP at Gen Con (whether it's impacting 20% of people or 40%).