TOPIC: "Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon?

Brad Mortensen wrote: My concern is that some farmers use human ghosts. Treating imaginary ghosts differently from human ones isn't fair.

I'm just not sure how to tell them apart.

Note: "them" = human ghosts vs real players

Right.

That would be extremely difficult, if not impossible.

That would at least ensure 9 more people see the dungeon, though that may not be enough.

Kirk Bauer wrote: I don't think this is an immediate problem, but it might become one. As it stands now, at GenCon 2017, I'll probably buy out quite a few runs and do at least two solo runs, both for the challenge and for the loot. I'll probably also do two newbie runs where I buy the tickets and keep the treasure, again both for the fun of introducing new players to the game and as a bonus I get a bunch of treasure. I don't think this is inherently bad nor am I in a hurry to restrict the loot I'll get

And at WYC I bought an entire empty run once the start time had passed and just collected the loot (although in retrospect I forgot to get completion tokens for it).

So if everybody is OK with it then I'll drop my suggestion to change anything

I see what you're doing.

I think it is an immediate problem, as there were several examples of this at GENCON, and many more people saying they'll do it in the future.

I don't think anything needs to be done about people recruiting people to go on runs to give them the loot. It's still actual people on the runs, hopefully some of whom will get hooked on TD.

Brad Mortensen wrote:
I'm just not sure how to tell them apart.

Note: "them" = human ghosts vs real players

Isn't this the plot of Blade Runner?

Mike Steele wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: I don't think this is an immediate problem, but it might become one. As it stands now, at GenCon 2017, I'll probably buy out quite a few runs and do at least two solo runs, both for the challenge and for the loot. I'll probably also do two newbie runs where I buy the tickets and keep the treasure, again both for the fun of introducing new players to the game and as a bonus I get a bunch of treasure. I don't think this is inherently bad nor am I in a hurry to restrict the loot I'll get

And at WYC I bought an entire empty run once the start time had passed and just collected the loot (although in retrospect I forgot to get completion tokens for it).

So if everybody is OK with it then I'll drop my suggestion to change anything

I see what you're doing.

I think it is an immediate problem, as there were several examples of this at GENCON, and many more people saying they'll do it in the future.

I don't think anything needs to be done about people recruiting people to go on runs to give them the loot. It's still actual people on the runs, hopefully some of whom will get hooked on TD.

And it's still farming.

May I say something impolite? The root problem isn't farming. That's a symptom. The problem is that the value of the loot is close to or exceeding the cost of the ticket.

ESPECIALLY at the satellite cons where tickets are only $40.

And everyone is proposing "solutions " that wiil keep that true for their situation while stopping others, those "bad people"

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: I don't think this is an immediate problem, but it might become one. As it stands now, at GenCon 2017, I'll probably buy out quite a few runs and do at least two solo runs, both for the challenge and for the loot. I'll probably also do two newbie runs where I buy the tickets and keep the treasure, again both for the fun of introducing new players to the game and as a bonus I get a bunch of treasure. I don't think this is inherently bad nor am I in a hurry to restrict the loot I'll get

And at WYC I bought an entire empty run once the start time had passed and just collected the loot (although in retrospect I forgot to get completion tokens for it).

So if everybody is OK with it then I'll drop my suggestion to change anything

I see what you're doing.

I think it is an immediate problem, as there were several examples of this at GENCON, and many more people saying they'll do it in the future.

I don't think anything needs to be done about people recruiting people to go on runs to give them the loot. It's still actual people on the runs, hopefully some of whom will get hooked on TD.

And it's still farming.

May I say something impolite? The root problem isn't farming. That's a symptom. The problem is that the value of the loot is close to or exceeding the cost of the ticket.

ESPECIALLY at the satellite cons where tickets are only $40.

And everyone is proposing "solutions " that wiil keep that true for their situation while stopping others, those "bad people"

If the root problem is value, then the solution seems simple. Let all the loot out you want, it will eventually be worth less than the value of a run.

Then the mix will have to change, or less people will buy tokens since they can just get them from loot though.

Or runs will have to increase in price.

I do think people are trying to solve different problems here.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: I don't think this is an immediate problem, but it might become one. As it stands now, at GenCon 2017, I'll probably buy out quite a few runs and do at least two solo runs, both for the challenge and for the loot. I'll probably also do two newbie runs where I buy the tickets and keep the treasure, again both for the fun of introducing new players to the game and as a bonus I get a bunch of treasure. I don't think this is inherently bad nor am I in a hurry to restrict the loot I'll get

And at WYC I bought an entire empty run once the start time had passed and just collected the loot (although in retrospect I forgot to get completion tokens for it).

So if everybody is OK with it then I'll drop my suggestion to change anything

I see what you're doing.

I think it is an immediate problem, as there were several examples of this at GENCON, and many more people saying they'll do it in the future.

I don't think anything needs to be done about people recruiting people to go on runs to give them the loot. It's still actual people on the runs, hopefully some of whom will get hooked on TD.

And it's still farming.

May I say something impolite? The root problem isn't farming. That's a symptom. The problem is that the value of the loot is close to or exceeding the cost of the ticket.

ESPECIALLY at the satellite cons where tickets are only $40.

And everyone is proposing "solutions " that wiil keep that true for their situation while stopping others, those "bad people"

If the root problem is value, then the solution seems simple. Let all the loot out you want, it will eventually be worth less than the value of a run.

Then the mix will have to change, or less people will buy tokens since they can just get them from loot though.

Or runs will have to increase in price.

I do think people are trying to solve different problems here.

I don't think that will happen, since it is a new mix of tokens in the boxes every year.

Mike Steele wrote:
I think it is an immediate problem, as there were several examples of this at GENCON, and many more people saying they'll do it in the future.

I don't think anything needs to be done about people recruiting people to go on runs to give them the loot. It's still actual people on the runs, hopefully some of whom will get hooked on TD.

I guess I with Brad then. Let's let this run its course until fully breaks if no one else is seeing a problem with treasure going up and farming is okay if there are bodies associated to the farmers.

So in 2021 or 2023 when we are pulling 230 pulls from a single run, since we moved to full treasure regardless of how you do in the dungeon. The goal for a group of 10 is grab as many tickets as they can and die in room 1, so they can start their next adventure in less than the two hours it takes usually to run the dungeon.

Players A and B work together to buy 10 tickets every hour and reap lots of tokens.

Player A buys 10 tickets that start at 9:00AM.

Player B buys 10 tickets that starts at 10:00AM that gives you time to complete coaching which would be recording treasure tokens and training, die in room 1 and get to your next event. Even if you are late to coaching it would not be a big deal because you just getting treasure tokens recorded.

Player A buys 10 tickets start at 11:00AM (this is when they collect their treasure from the 9AM run) and repeat.

Players A and B recruit/hire X people to help them collect treasure.

Brad you want to be player A or B with me?

jedibcg wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:
I think it is an immediate problem, as there were several examples of this at GENCON, and many more people saying they'll do it in the future.

I don't think anything needs to be done about people recruiting people to go on runs to give them the loot. It's still actual people on the runs, hopefully some of whom will get hooked on TD.

I guess I with Brad then. Let's let this run its course until fully breaks if no one else is seeing a problem with treasure going up and farming is okay if there are bodies associated to the farmers.

So in 2021 or 2023 when we are pulling 230 pulls from a single run, since we moved to full treasure regardless of how you do in the dungeon. The goal for a group of 10 is grab as many tickets as they can and die in room 1, so they can start their next adventure in less than the two hours it takes usually to run the dungeon.

Players A and B work together to buy 10 tickets every hour and reap lots of tokens.

Player A buys 10 tickets that start at 9:00AM.

Player B buys 10 tickets that starts at 10:00AM that gives you time to complete coaching which would be recording treasure tokens and training, die in room 1 and get to your next event. Even if you are late to coaching it would not be a big deal because you just getting treasure tokens recorded.

Player A buys 10 tickets start at 11:00AM (this is when they collect their treasure from the 9AM run) and repeat.

Players A and B recruit/hire X people to help them collect treasure.

Brad you want to be player A or B with me?

There is definitely money to be made in the short term. But I won't join in because I'm at GenCon to have fun

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: I don't think this is an immediate problem, but it might become one. As it stands now, at GenCon 2017, I'll probably buy out quite a few runs and do at least two solo runs, both for the challenge and for the loot. I'll probably also do two newbie runs where I buy the tickets and keep the treasure, again both for the fun of introducing new players to the game and as a bonus I get a bunch of treasure. I don't think this is inherently bad nor am I in a hurry to restrict the loot I'll get

And at WYC I bought an entire empty run once the start time had passed and just collected the loot (although in retrospect I forgot to get completion tokens for it).

So if everybody is OK with it then I'll drop my suggestion to change anything

I see what you're doing.

I think it is an immediate problem, as there were several examples of this at GENCON, and many more people saying they'll do it in the future.

I don't think anything needs to be done about people recruiting people to go on runs to give them the loot. It's still actual people on the runs, hopefully some of whom will get hooked on TD.

And it's still farming.

May I say something impolite? The root problem isn't farming. That's a symptom. The problem is that the value of the loot is close to or exceeding the cost of the ticket.

ESPECIALLY at the satellite cons where tickets are only $40.

And everyone is proposing "solutions " that wiil keep that true for their situation while stopping others, those "bad people"

I just don't think there is some huge group of people who will spend hours of valuable GENCON time doing something they don't enjoy just so someone else can profit on token pulls. There are just too many other things they can be doing. I think if you recruit people to do a TD run they are likely there because they want to play True Dungeon. That makes them players, not "token mules"

Brad Mortensen wrote: May I say something impolite? The root problem isn't farming. That's a symptom. The problem is that the value of the loot is close to or exceeding the cost of the ticket.

ESPECIALLY at the satellite cons where tickets are only $40.

And everyone is proposing "solutions " that wiil keep that true for their situation while stopping others, those "bad people"

The problem is that the gulf between the "haves" and the "have nots" continues to grow every year. Any system that seeks to provide value to people who pull three, maybe four at a time is going to scale poorly to people who buy a run and take 190 pieces of flair loot home with them.

Okay so neither of you think it will work, but would you be fine with it, if I found people to be able to do this? Because this is truly farming. You don't need people that are going to Gen Con to game. Either everyone involved is there to make money as a farmer or they are there as mules. Yes you buy badges for mules and pay them, which cuts into your profits but it might be better than splitting your profits other farmers.

I don't know if the value of tokens decrease or actually increase because someone (or a group of someone's) gets 1 out of every 5 runs and has 1/5 the treasure pulls market.

jedibcg wrote: You hire a body for 2 hours, there are plenty of people that you could borrow to run through the dungeon at minimal cost.

can't wait to see the taskrabbit post for TD runs =)