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TOPIC: "Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon?

"Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon? 6 years 4 months ago #13

jedibcg wrote: out of the 40 tickets I bought I think 2 or 3 ended up being ghosts/retainers do to no shows. Nothing was said to me on Sunday or any other day I might have had a ghost, so it was NOT passed along to everyone.


Well - I had to be proactive - I went to the check in station with the tickets, and announced I was ghosting, and inquire as to the policy for treasure.

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"Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon? 6 years 4 months ago #14

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Matthew Hayward wrote:

Raven wrote: Thanks Master Ed.

Could you confirm for me that it was 7 bags of tokens for turning in the ticket?


I was given 8.


Was that 8 total (7, plus the 1 free one that everyone gets) or 9 total (8 plus the 1 free) ?

And thank you for the data point.
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"Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon? 6 years 4 months ago #15

Kirk Bauer wrote: Let's be clear; with the new treasure mix (if it stays that way), and 17 guaranteed pulls per ticket, we certainly don't need any extra incentive for people to ghost runs. If you consider that treasure draws were selling for over $5/ea, and that's before people knew how good the mix was, that would be $85 of treasure for a $56 ticket. That's a real problem for farming IMO. And assuming the new treasure enhancer stacks, now max treasure is 19 pulls (excluding artifacts).

I think the policy should be how it ended up; you receive one 10-pack and a wristband and associated treasure once you finish the run OR you get eight 10-packs for just turning in the ticket (no need to go on the run).

Additionally, to curb "farming" the runs, I suggest that ghost players should NOT receive the 3 free treasure draws, should NOT receive the 6th level player bonus, and additionally can only "equip" one treasure enhancer. Currently this would most likely be the Charm of Avarice, so the max treasure draws would be 13 draws. I'd also argue no completion tokens. I say this as somebody who is thinking about doing my first solo run at GenCon 2017.

Finally, I think True Dungeon should sell "treasure runs" at the same place they sell tokens. You pay the current ticket price (e.g. $56) and you receive a 10-pack and whatever treasure draws you have tokens for, but no completion tokens.


I broadly agree but strongly reject the "only one" token enhancer, which strongly advantages people who transmuted a CoA as opposed to, for example, keeping AoTF, RoR, and CoGF.

Treasure generators should be allowed on ghosts, or not. The loot should be cappped, or not. Making an arbitrary 1 TE slotted on ghost is just a value transfer to CoA players at the expense of everyone else.

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

"Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon? 6 years 4 months ago #16

Raven wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Raven wrote: Thanks Master Ed.

Could you confirm for me that it was 7 bags of tokens for turning in the ticket?


I was given 8.


Was that 8 total (7, plus the 1 free one that everyone gets) or 9 total (8 plus the 1 free) ?

And thank you for the data point.


8 total.

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"Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon? 6 years 4 months ago #17

Kirk Bauer wrote: Let's be clear; with the new treasure mix (if it stays that way), and 17 guaranteed pulls per ticket, we certainly don't need any extra incentive for people to ghost runs. If you consider that treasure draws were selling for over $5/ea, and that's before people knew how good the mix was, that would be $85 of treasure for a $56 ticket. That's a real problem for farming IMO. And assuming the new treasure enhancer stacks, now max treasure is 19 pulls (excluding artifacts).

I think the policy should be how it ended up; you receive one 10-pack and a wristband and associated treasure once you finish the run OR you get eight 10-packs for just turning in the ticket (no need to go on the run).

Additionally, to curb "farming" the runs, I suggest that ghost players should NOT receive the 3 free treasure draws, should NOT receive the 6th level player bonus, and additionally can only "equip" one treasure enhancer. Currently this would most likely be the Charm of Avarice, so the max treasure draws would be 13 draws. I'd also argue no completion tokens. I say this as somebody who is thinking about doing my first solo run at GenCon 2017.

Finally, I think True Dungeon should sell "treasure runs" at the same place they sell tokens. You pay the current ticket price (e.g. $56) and you receive a 10-pack and whatever treasure draws you have tokens for, but no completion tokens.


Of course we don't know if the treasure mix will stay the same. I like loot as much as the next guy with a CoA. But I wonder if this year's distribution was a good thing.
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"Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon? 6 years 4 months ago #18

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MasterED wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: Finally, I think True Dungeon should sell "treasure runs" at the same place they sell tokens. You pay the current ticket price (e.g. $56) and you receive a 10-pack and whatever treasure draws you have tokens for, but no completion tokens.

I agree with this because it basically resolves the farming question.

Ed


I feel..... uncomfortable... with this.

I'm not saying the idea is completely wrong, or shouldn't be explored, but there's something about it which feels like... Like selling out the TD experience? Like it cheapens the experience for people who play the dungeon for their hard-earned treasure.

Does that make sense?

Although, I am very much in favour of finding ways to make the slots (especially at GenCon) more accessible to the casual players, and if this works, I am not inherently against it.

I do agree, though, that Completion tokens -and XP! - should never be for sale, because they're the things you get for actually completing the dungeon.
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"Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon? 6 years 4 months ago #19

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: Let's be clear; with the new treasure mix (if it stays that way), and 17 guaranteed pulls per ticket, we certainly don't need any extra incentive for people to ghost runs. If you consider that treasure draws were selling for over $5/ea, and that's before people knew how good the mix was, that would be $85 of treasure for a $56 ticket. That's a real problem for farming IMO. And assuming the new treasure enhancer stacks, now max treasure is 19 pulls (excluding artifacts).

I think the policy should be how it ended up; you receive one 10-pack and a wristband and associated treasure once you finish the run OR you get eight 10-packs for just turning in the ticket (no need to go on the run).

Additionally, to curb "farming" the runs, I suggest that ghost players should NOT receive the 3 free treasure draws, should NOT receive the 6th level player bonus, and additionally can only "equip" one treasure enhancer. Currently this would most likely be the Charm of Avarice, so the max treasure draws would be 13 draws. I'd also argue no completion tokens. I say this as somebody who is thinking about doing my first solo run at GenCon 2017.

Finally, I think True Dungeon should sell "treasure runs" at the same place they sell tokens. You pay the current ticket price (e.g. $56) and you receive a 10-pack and whatever treasure draws you have tokens for, but no completion tokens.


I broadly agree but strongly reject the "only one" token enhancer, which strongly advantages people who transmuted a CoA as opposed to, for example, keeping AoTF, RoR, and CoGF.

Treasure generators should be allowed on ghosts, or not. The loot should be cappped, or not. Making an arbitrary 1 TE slotted on ghost is just a value transfer to CoA players at the expense of everyone else.


Excellent point Matthew!

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"Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon? 6 years 4 months ago #20

Incognito wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: Let's be clear; with the new treasure mix (if it stays that way), and 17 guaranteed pulls per ticket, we certainly don't need any extra incentive for people to ghost runs. If you consider that treasure draws were selling for over $5/ea, and that's before people knew how good the mix was, that would be $85 of treasure for a $56 ticket. That's a real problem for farming IMO. And assuming the new treasure enhancer stacks, now max treasure is 19 pulls (excluding artifacts).

I think the policy should be how it ended up; you receive one 10-pack and a wristband and associated treasure once you finish the run OR you get eight 10-packs for just turning in the ticket (no need to go on the run).

Additionally, to curb "farming" the runs, I suggest that ghost players should NOT receive the 3 free treasure draws, should NOT receive the 6th level player bonus, and additionally can only "equip" one treasure enhancer. Currently this would most likely be the Charm of Avarice, so the max treasure draws would be 13 draws. I'd also argue no completion tokens. I say this as somebody who is thinking about doing my first solo run at GenCon 2017.

Finally, I think True Dungeon should sell "treasure runs" at the same place they sell tokens. You pay the current ticket price (e.g. $56) and you receive a 10-pack and whatever treasure draws you have tokens for, but no completion tokens.


I broadly agree but strongly reject the "only one" token enhancer, which strongly advantages people who transmuted a CoA as opposed to, for example, keeping AoTF, RoR, and CoGF.

Treasure generators should be allowed on ghosts, or not. The loot should be cappped, or not. Making an arbitrary 1 TE slotted on ghost is just a value transfer to CoA players at the expense of everyone else.


Excellent point Matthew!


I don't disagree; my proposal is to somewhat limit the value of ghosting characters, but I"m open to the exact method. It shouldn't be completely nerfed, just limited.
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"Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon? 6 years 4 months ago #21

MasterED wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: Finally, I think True Dungeon should sell "treasure runs" at the same place they sell tokens. You pay the current ticket price (e.g. $56) and you receive a 10-pack and whatever treasure draws you have tokens for, but no completion tokens.

I agree with this because it basically resolves the farming question.

Ed


I see the following happening.


Player 1 : hey can I borrow your charm of avarice for 5 minutes?
Player 2 : sure, for 10 bucks
*mental note* always listen to Jeff

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"Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon? 6 years 4 months ago #22

Brad wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: Finally, I think True Dungeon should sell "treasure runs" at the same place they sell tokens. You pay the current ticket price (e.g. $56) and you receive a 10-pack and whatever treasure draws you have tokens for, but no completion tokens.

I agree with this because it basically resolves the farming question.

Ed


I see the following happening.


Player 1 : hey can I borrow your charm of avarice for 5 minutes?
Player 2 : sure, for 10 bucks

It would be unwise for Player 1 to do so - it hurts them. They invested all that effort and money to "loan" it out for $10. Certainly people will continue to be unwise. But is this better or worse then the same Player 2 buying out a run and new players can't get in?

Make the minimum at least 5 runs so you are talking $280. Because anyone that is willing to spend $280 would also likely spend $560 to buy out a run.

Ed
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"Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon? 6 years 4 months ago #23

Brad wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: Finally, I think True Dungeon should sell "treasure runs" at the same place they sell tokens. You pay the current ticket price (e.g. $56) and you receive a 10-pack and whatever treasure draws you have tokens for, but no completion tokens.

I agree with this because it basically resolves the farming question.

Ed


I see the following happening.


Player 1 : hey can I borrow your charm of avarice for 5 minutes?
Player 2 : sure, for 10 bucks


That's a good point. Although this already happens in the dungeon because you don't have to show the tokens in the epilogue room.

I think there is likely a problem here, especially with another new treasure enhancer. And I think there is likely a good solution. I'm not saying I know what that is :)

We should be able to find a way to (1) allow novelty things like double-down runs and solo runs here and there without being prohibitively costly, (2) allow for more treasure-enhancers (which drive token sales), while (3) avoiding significant "farming" of dungeon runs.
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Last edit: by Kirk Bauer.

"Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon? 6 years 4 months ago #24

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Brad wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: Finally, I think True Dungeon should sell "treasure runs" at the same place they sell tokens. You pay the current ticket price (e.g. $56) and you receive a 10-pack and whatever treasure draws you have tokens for, but no completion tokens.

I agree with this because it basically resolves the farming question.

Ed


I see the following happening.


Player 1 : hey can I borrow your charm of avarice for 5 minutes?
Player 2 : sure, for 10 bucks


That's a good point. Although this already happens in the dungeon because you don't have to show the tokens in the epilogue room.

I think there is likely a problem here, especially with another new treasure enhancer. And I think there is likely a good solution. I'm not saying I know what that is :)

We should be able to find a way to (1) allow novelty things like double-down runs and solo runs here and there without being prohibitively costly, (2) allow for more treasure-enhancers (which drive token sales), while (3) avoiding significant "farming" of dungeon runs.


I agree, and I don't know what it is either. There are a lot of really smart people on these forums, so I am sure we can figure a reasonable plan.
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