TOPIC: Puzzle failure shouldn't take combat hitpoints

I can empathize with the op here.

4th level wizards have 16 hp out of the gate, which wins them the prize for least hit points.

It does make you sort of duck and cover when at the beginning of your 90 min adventure you get zapped for 3, then 6 within minutes of entering the first room.

As a wizard player before I got to 5th level and various ur con and hp boosters I pretty much never touched anything in the dungeon in puzzle rooms, which can be frustrating when you have something you want to try but you're not sure if it can handle going from. 12 to 8 hp in room 2...

I'm not sure anything can be done about it, but I do feel where the op is coming from.

I know this might sounds harsh but if someone wants to do puzzles without damage they should do Escape/Breakout rooms. True Dungeon isn't one of these and shouldn't be thought of as such.

"True Dungeon is a d20 variant that allows players to experience their D&D adventure within a life-size, walk through dungeon environment.

Not a LARP, True Dungeon instead focuses on problem solving, teamwork and tactics while providing exciting sets and interactive props."

I bolded teamwork for the poster that suggested the game is not a team game, though honest that could have been a different thread.

Chris Von Wahlde wrote:

Adam Pillari wrote: To reiterate what others have said more concisely

Taking damage from failing a puzzle has been a thing ever since the beginning of TD, and before that, since TD is inspired from DnD and other fantasy realms, many of which give out pain if you fail a puzzle or other non-combat challenge.

I understand this may be frustrating for a new player, but that's unfortunately just how the system works.

That being said, the chain room was especially brutal this year....most puzzles aren't that damage heavy

I DMd the chain puzzle. I didn't think it was that damage heavy. Most groups that came through may have gotten damaged once/twice at the most, then learned not to let the chain hit the table. At least on Friday the success rate was pretty high.

My group took 36 points of damage in about 30 seconds on Hardcore before we learned to be really careful. Those last 18 points came about one second apart as the chain bounced against the table twice, the DM had a tough time calling out our damage fast enough.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Chris Von Wahlde wrote:

Adam Pillari wrote: To reiterate what others have said more concisely

Taking damage from failing a puzzle has been a thing ever since the beginning of TD, and before that, since TD is inspired from DnD and other fantasy realms, many of which give out pain if you fail a puzzle or other non-combat challenge.

I understand this may be frustrating for a new player, but that's unfortunately just how the system works.

That being said, the chain room was especially brutal this year....most puzzles aren't that damage heavy

I DMd the chain puzzle. I didn't think it was that damage heavy. Most groups that came through may have gotten damaged once/twice at the most, then learned not to let the chain hit the table. At least on Friday the success rate was pretty high.

Oh - wow - on our run (nightmare!) we were told by the dm straight up letting the chain hit the table would cause damage.

It would have been way harder if we had to figure that out based on oracular pronouncements that we all took damage for some reason.

I didn't say anything because the clue on the wall flat out says... don't let the chain touch the table.

Mike Steele wrote:

Chris Von Wahlde wrote:

Adam Pillari wrote: To reiterate what others have said more concisely

Taking damage from failing a puzzle has been a thing ever since the beginning of TD, and before that, since TD is inspired from DnD and other fantasy realms, many of which give out pain if you fail a puzzle or other non-combat challenge.

I understand this may be frustrating for a new player, but that's unfortunately just how the system works.

That being said, the chain room was especially brutal this year....most puzzles aren't that damage heavy

I DMd the chain puzzle. I didn't think it was that damage heavy. Most groups that came through may have gotten damaged once/twice at the most, then learned not to let the chain hit the table. At least on Friday the success rate was pretty high.

My group took 36 points of damage in about 30 seconds on Hardcore before we learned to be really careful. Those last 18 points came about one second apart as the chain bounced against the table twice, the DM had a tough time calling out our damage fast enough.

Yeah... the chain reaction (no pun intended) damage could be harsh. I still don't feel the puzzle was worse than any other. As I stated earlier my success rate on Friday was pretty high with the majority only taking damage once. There were the rare instances of what you speak of, and one almost TPK... 3 survivors (barely)... but all in all not that bad.

The problem our group had was that the GM kept telling us not to lean on the table....and most of us are pretty short. I get that we need to not damage the table but....it was very difficult physically for us to reach the center without leaning. That caused a few oopses

Harlax wrote:

Graham Smallwood wrote: Well, yeah, but healing puzzle damage is still crossing over between puzzle and combat mechanics.

Failing a puzzle could make the next fight harder or something. Then the damage is happening in actual combat instead of magical puzzle damage.

This thread is certified half-baked. There's a good thought in it somewhere...

That would require ending a puzzle run on a combat or the penalty would be meaningless. I can tell you right now that puzzle player would hate that with a deep and abiding passion.

didn't BHM Puzzle end on a combat this year?

Adam Pillari wrote: The problem our group had was that the GM kept telling us not to lean on the table....and most of us are pretty short. I get that we need to not damage the table but....it was very difficult physically for us to reach the center without leaning. That caused a few oopses

I have to agree... that was my one problem with the table. I do think some of the puzzles need to take into account not everyone is 6'+. My wife has problems with some of the Rogue boxes for the exact same problem.

As stated in other postings...

Hit Points are for the character - damage of any type comes off the hit points.

Using the wiki -
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_%28gaming%29

travis wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Graham Smallwood wrote: Well, yeah, but healing puzzle damage is still crossing over between puzzle and combat mechanics.

Failing a puzzle could make the next fight harder or something. Then the damage is happening in actual combat instead of magical puzzle damage.

This thread is certified half-baked. There's a good thought in it somewhere...

That would require ending a puzzle run on a combat or the penalty would be meaningless. I can tell you right now that puzzle player would hate that with a deep and abiding passion.

didn't BHM Puzzle end on a combat this year?

yes it did, though not the norm by any streach. It also only had 2 combats as I recall rather then the more typical 4/3 split.

I feel the need (unfortunately) to emphasize quite emphatically that using the reason "that's the way it's always been" is never ever ever ever ever an acceptable reason for anything. Its a cop out, it's unoriginal, it's insulting and it stifles development and progress. Instead, if that way is actually a good way you should explain WHY it is and had been that way so long. Otherwise you're shutting the door on improving whatever you're taking about. Just because it's always been a way doesn't mean that way is penultimate perfection (and it likely is not) and can therefore be improved upon through constructive dialogue.

Ryan Short wrote: I feel the need (unfortunately) to emphasize quite emphatically that using the reason "that's the way it's always been" is never ever ever ever ever an acceptable reason for anything. Its a cop out, it's unoriginal, it's insulting and it stifles development and progress. Instead, if that way is actually a good way you should explain WHY it is and had been that way so long. Otherwise you're shutting the door on improving whatever you're taking about. Just because it's always been a way doesn't mean that way is penultimate perfection (and it likely is not) and can therefore be improved upon through constructive dialogue.

My earlier post gave a reason. Usually the DM says something like that. It's not a cop out. It is a good reason